Hunting Deer with a 400 gr Speer 45-70 government load

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Stats Shooter

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I have decided I'm going to use my Marlin 1895 on at least 1 deer this year. Our standard rifle season begins tomorrow.

Is an 1,870 fps, 400 grain Speer soft point fired from a 45-70 overkill on a 150-200 lb deer? You betcha!

But I bought the gun, developed the load, and want to try it out. Plus, some of the areas I hunt have hogs. If I see one I will try it on one of them too.

I have more appropriate deer rifles, but I'm like a kid with a new toy at Christmas with this thing and my load is very accurate..... especially with these Skinner sights.

So far I have put a trigger happy trigger in it to eliminate the trigger flop. It now brakes at 3 lbs 4oz. I put an aluminum mag follower in it rather than the factory plastic one, a Skinner rear sight, an open front sight hood, a Beartooth safety delete, and a dovetail blank to fill the gap left by the old sight.

With very little adjustment, I'm zeroed at 125 yards and shooting consistent 2" groups at 100 yards with Open sights .

I doubt I will recover a bullet from a deer, but I might on a hog. If I do, I will post a picture.
 
Aim for the ribs! I shot one with the same bullet at 1900fps and ruined both front shoulders. A complet mess of blood shot meat! Range was about 60 yards and the lungs were both like red oatmeal. By the way I used a Shiloh Sharps.
 
I shoot a 300gr hornady flat nose at 2000 fps out of a ruger # 3, the speed lessens the drop of the bullet to make hits easier out to 200 yards. I try to take standing double lung shots. eastbank
 
"So far I have put a trigger happy trigger in it to eliminate the trigger flop. It now brakes at 3 lbs 4oz. I put an aluminum mag follower in it rather than the factory plastic one, a Skinner rear sight, an open front sight hood, a Beartooth safety delete, and a dovetail blank to fill the gap left by the old sight. "

I read this and immediately ordered the mag follower, the trigger, and the safety delete for both my .45/70 and my .357 Marlins.


And yes, that is gross overkill for deer.
But, nothing exceeds like excess.
 
I shoot a lot lighter loads in all my 45-70s. Reason.....if I don't it kills on both ends. My most accurate loads are in the Trapdoor load range with 405 Rem JSP bullets. Even with those loads I have yet to recover a single bullet after shooting a good number of deer. I'd bet that most of them would pass through a hog also. Max loads and macho just isn't a good combination and accomplishes nothing except a good beating to the shooter. The advice to "use enough gun" is met early on with this caliber. However, it's your toy so have at it. I learned to enjoy shooting my guns a while back. FWIW, I get sub moa with a couple of my guns, most notably my High Wall. It's one of the most accurate guns I own and not particularly fussy to load for. It likes most everything I put in it.
 
Max loads and macho just isn't a good combination and accomplishes nothing except a good beating to the shooter
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Since when did fully utilizing a cartridges potential become "macho"?. If you can't handle full power loads, then fine, but why does everyone who can't make some comment like this? Has feminism crept into reloading?

If you didn't mean anything by that comment..then I apologise. But I get annoyed quickly when people who are too old, or frail, or sensitive, or have been convinced they should turn a 45-70 into a 44 magnum make comments like "macho" or something about fully employing the cartridge.
 
Overkill?? Nope. For years much of NYS prohibited the use of rifles for deer hunting, one could only use a shotgun or muzzle loader. Anyone who thinks a 400gr 45 cal at <2000fps is "overkill" should see what a 1oz 12ga slug does to a deer. Apparently NYS did not see the 12ga as "overkill".

On the flip-side of the token, 20ga is the minimum size shotgun that is legal to take deer with. This baffles me, in NY one can take deer with ANY handgun so long as it is centerfire..yes, technically speaking you could hunt with a 380. But a 410 slug is illegal... I still can't figure that one out. On paper it seems to me that a 410 slug is at least equivalent to a warm 45 Colt.

Use what ya like, be proficient with it, and bag your buck! :)

Don't forget to give that Super Grade some woods time Mississippi! :D
 
Don't forget to give that Super Grade some woods time Mississippi!
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Ohh I will.i am going elk hunting this December over Christmas with a draw only late season cow hunt in NE Utah....it is high plateau/ high desert hunting. So no woods, but a perfect application of a model 70 Super Grade 300wm.
 
If you didn't mean anything by that comment..then I apologise. But I get annoyed quickly when people who are too old, or frail, or sensitive, or have been convinced they should turn a 45-70 into a 44 magnum make comments like "macho" or something about fully employing the cartridge.
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You're very defensive. No need to be. When this cartridge was developed it fired a 400g bullet at around 1150fps. Today it's beyond "fully utilized". It sounds like you haven't killed very many deer. I run into a lot of "knowledgeable" shooters who think more muzzle velocity is better. It simply isn't in a lot of cases. I'm not "too old", "frail", or "sensitive". In fact, for several years I was a sponsored shooter and I've fired literally hundreds, and hundreds of thousands of rounds of handgun, rifle, and shotgun over the last many years. I've killed well over a hundred and fifty whitetails, and I have a pretty good idea of what I'm talking about. Like I said, it's your toy. Do as you please. Trying to make a magnum out of an old time cartridge doesn't make a lot of sense in about any regard. Just buy a gun that fires something more powerful Some day you'll wake up (maybe) and realize that muzzle energy doesn't kill, bullet placement does. Sorry you're "annoyed". If you want to post and get comments, you'd better get used to opinions other than your own.
 
You're very defensive. No need to be. When this cartridge was developed it fired a 400g bullet at around 1150fps. Today it's beyond "fully utilized". It sounds like you haven't killed very many deer. I run into a lot of "knowledgeable" shooters who think more muzzle velocity is better. It simply isn't in a lot of cases. I'm not "too old", "frail", or "sensitive".
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My deer count isn't as high as yours... but it's around 4 dozen plus hogs , elk, sheep.

Anyway, it seems your reasoning was legit,and for that, I am sorry. I just get tired of "download mania" that some folks get.

I.e they buy a 44 magnum, then load light 44 so loads and claim that is the only way to go.
 
As I have posted before, the thing I can't wrap my mind around with the .45/70 are the number of people I have talked to over the years that are trying to push the .45/70 to the absolute limits, knocking on the door of .458 Win Mag performance, trying to get the last 25 fps out of a given load while using some boutique bullet that cost $2.00 a piece.....................for whitetail deer.

I don't really consider it being conservative to use normal loads that will easily pass through several deer lined up in a row. As I have posted before, my plinker loads are about the same velocity as a .44 mag handgun only my .45/70 is shooting a 405 grain bullet at that velocity. Those plinker loads are MORE than enough for whitetail deer.

But, again, it doesn't hurt anything to use those mammoth loads on whitetail deer if that pulls your chain for some reason. This is just an observation of people who I consider as taking things too far, for no good reason.
 
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As I have posted before, the thing I can't wrap my mind around with the .45/70 are the number of people I have talked to over the years that are trying to push the .45/70 to the absolute limits, knocking on the door of .458 Win Mag performance, trying to get the last 25 fps out of a given load while using some boutique bullet that cost $2.00 a piece.....................for whitetail deer.

I don't really consider it being somewhat conservative to use normal loads that will easily pass through several deer lined up in a row. As I have posted before, my plinker loads are about the same velocity as a .44 mag handgun only my .45/70 is shooting a 405 grain bullet at that velocity. Those plinker loads are MORE than enough for whitetail deer.
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In the initial post, I acknowledge it is gross over kill. My plinking load I'm working on with this gun is a 405 gr hard cast around 1400 fps. And that would be more than enough on deer/hogs too.

I made this load to see what a modern power 45-70 could do. In fact, my primary deer rifle right now is a little youth model .243 because it is small, light, easy to manuver in the trees, and easy to hold shooting off hand.


I didn't really want to start an argument on how to load the 45-70. (I guess maybe then I shouldn't have mentioned the load). But I'm just excited to use this lever gun for the first time in a critter.
 
One advantage I can see to pushing the horsepower if the platform is capable of holding up to it is gaining a flatter trajectory if you are looking to shoot at greater distance with the given platform with less worry about how much holdover to utilize. I'm not a long range shooter/hunter but I do understand the mechanics of it. But all of that still hinges on whether the shooter is well practiced at reaching out like that.

It doesn't bother me one iota what the next guy chooses to hunt with at either end of the spectrum as long as that person is proficient with it and makes the clean kill that the animal deserves.
 
I guess I am somewhat the opposite, with a handload I can optimize the load for what I am doing.

I shot a Caribou in the got one time, 75 yards maybe. 7mm. I was able to salvage most of the far side shoulder but it was stew meat, messy.

7mm was a bit much for a Caribou though you never knew what range the shot could be, my brother got one at around 400 yards (paced), very rare as close as I did.

But moose tag was always there and always a degree of issue with a Grizzly encounter possible. For just Caribou the ideal cartridge is the 270. 6.5 would be fine, they are not tough to kill.

Sounds like a great gun, certainly understand wanting to use it, but having a lighter load for deer would seem appropriate.

Hogs, never dealt with them, I would put it in the area of how aggressive they are and how seriously you need to have them shot.

The big shooter would seem to be best on a moose or even a bear.

But then keep in mind I am one of those wimpy feminist supporters (lets just say my wife who grew up on a farm and has reflexes like a Cobra, can drive a tractor far better than I ever could garners a serious amount of respect)
 
"In the initial post, I acknowledge it is gross over kill."

I wasn't trying to start an argument either. I apologize for coming off that way. I wasn't even specifically talking about you. This whole .45/70 thing has become a hot topic in the state of Ohio over the last few years because it has become legal to use the .45/70 for deer hunting. And this is a common topic of conversation among the people I hang around with.
Again, I see the fun in exploring what the cartridge can do. I think handloading is fun and working up max loads in a cartridge like the .45/70 is especially fun. But again, some of these guys are getting carried away in my opinion trying to squeeze the last drop of "power" out of the cartridge when their target is whitetail deer. There is nothing wrong with any of it. Basically just a point in the discussion.
 
Mississippi said:
I have decided I'm going to use my Marlin 1895 on at least 1 deer this year. Our standard rifle season begins tomorrow.

Is an 1,870 fps, 400 grain Speer soft point fired from a 45-70 overkill on a 150-200 lb deer? You betcha!

But I bought the gun, developed the load, and want to try it out. Plus, some of the areas I hunt have hogs. If I see one I will try it on one of them too.

I have more appropriate deer rifles, but I'm like a kid with a new toy at Christmas with this thing and my load is very accurate..... especially with these Skinner sights.

So far I have put a trigger happy trigger in it to eliminate the trigger flop. It now brakes at 3 lbs 4oz. I put an aluminum mag follower in it rather than the factory plastic one, a Skinner rear sight, an open front sight hood, a Beartooth safety delete, and a dovetail blank to fill the gap left by the old sight.

With very little adjustment, I'm zeroed at 125 yards and shooting consistent 2" groups at 100 yards with Open sights .

I doubt I will recover a bullet from a deer, but I might on a hog. If I do, I will post a picture.
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Have you read Paul Matthews book on the 45-70? Worth the read.


https://www.amazon.com/Forty-Years-45-Paul-Matthews/dp/0935632840
 
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