hunting accuracy

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A mild disagreement about scopes. I walk with a variable set on the lowest power. My last mule deer buck was at 30 yards (3X). My longest-ever one-shot kill was 450 at 9X; one other long one-shot at 350 at 3X.

I'm sorta empirical about all this. If it works, it's good. If not, it's bad. I'm not saying the old 3x9 or 3x10 is the absolute best, but the silly things have worked for me. :)

But so have Weaver K4s. :D

Art
 
Is sub-MOA nesessary for hunting: no.
Do I want a sub-MOA rifle for hunting? YES!!!

Not because its necessary, just because I think it would be fun to shoot one and see those nice little cloverleaf groups at 100 yds. The deer dont care, but I do.

Incedentally, I don't have a sub-MOA rifle. I shoot an A-bolt that with my best hanloads make 1.5' groups. I've killed 3 deer with 3 shots out to 244 yds with it so far. The only complaint is its so light sometimes its hard to keep those crosshairs still. My next rifle (whenever that will be) will be sub-MOA (just for fun) and about 9 lbs fully loaded to hopefully better my offhand shooting.
 
I want the best of both worlds. I don't "need" ultra-accurate rifles any more than I "need" premium bonded bullets. I've killed lots of deer with 2 moa rifles and promo loads and I'm sure I'll kill many more.

For that matter, why does anyone "need" anything other than a 12ga, single shot? That one gun will kill everything on this continent and most others as well, right? Not using the right tool for the job is just limiting what you can do or where you can do it unnecessarily.

I prefer sporter or light-weight rifles for most hunting situations but I have slug guns for up-close-and-personal and I have beanfield rifles for long-distance.

Periodically, money will get tight and I'll sell off many of my guns. Guess what rifle I always keep? A Remington mountain rifle in 7mm-08 with a Leupold VX-II 3-9x40 scope. That combo is light, easy to carry and will print 1" groups all day long with factory loads and will do .75 moa with my best-effort handloads. (It has been free-floated, glass bedded, trigger honed and re-crowned)
 
There is a line between confidence and arrogance but that does not mean that the line connects the two. A hunter who wants an accurate rifle may only want one portion removed from the equation of misses. The problem is that most hunters that purchase the "accurate" rifles then don't practice because, "hell the rifle is accurate so the rifle will do all the hard work after the trigger is pulled" The arrogant believe that if they have the rifle that a buddy has or that they have seen in a movie then they can make the same awesome shots, without putting in the range time. The leveler for all rifles is range time. There is no excuse for not putting in the practice. I would have more faith in a guy that practices with his 2 moa rifle prior to taking the rifle to the field over the guy that purchases a 2,000 dollar rig that just sits in the safe until hunting season. So the real question is how accurate do you need? Should be = to how much you practice.

SS
 
old thread alert.

I started to say welcome SS but you've had a handle almost as old as this thread. How's about...."Welcome Back!"
 
In my opinion, since a hunt is a living, breathing, organic and dynamic thing, there can be no excess in your pursuit of accuracy. a little mirage, 50 yards of error in range estimate, a bit of fatigue, and too long in between practice sessions will be enough to send your shot 3-4 inches out of the kill zone. A person with a 1.5 moa rifle can count on accuracy on a 4.5 inch target at 300 yards. If you change that to a 2.5 moa rifle, an average shooter will be really stretching his abilities to hit an 8 inch circle at 300.

Since these hunts are, as I said, dynamic, what happens when several other factors add in their effects? A bit of wind, a slight downhill tilt, a bit of a twitch? add 4 more inches, and you will have either missed your shot, or wounded an animal.

I think a person who takes anything less than a 1.5 MOA rifle into hunts that will provide 300 yard shots is wrong. Same thing stands for one who chooses a non magnum velocity round for 300 round or farther hunts.

shooting is all about chaos. It is your challenge to overcome that chaos. shooting paper over iron sights in one handed rapid fire matches is one thing; aiming at an elk with a worn out 30-30 two hills over is a crime.

You need an accurate package, though, not just a rifle that can shoot peas off of a fork. a 1.5 moa rifle, a great clear scope, and top quality ammunition are enough for someone who is up to the challenges of 300 yard shooting.


I guess my problem is that I really abhor misses and wounded game. A lot of people don't give a darn if a deer gets away, but myself, if I shoot, I want it dead, there, now, not three days later and eaten by buzzards.

I also feel very badly about anyone who chooses to use really marginal cartridges for hunting. There is no such thing as overkill, it is a nonsense term. Underkill is simple, it means NOT DEAD. If you shoot something, do it accurately, and with an adequate cartridge, so that if you shoot something, you don't underkill it.
 
There aren't many people that are really "fooled" by the gun companies into buying the latest and greatest, the super nice barrels, the 6-20x scopes, super expensive bullets and brass and etc. It may be entirely useless, but it's fun...... More than buy what people's wallets will afford, people will buy what makes them happy. And I really don't think they care if you bash them for it or not.

haters1.jpg
 
I've won't keep an inaccurate hunting rifle. I don't insist on MOA for hunting but "Minute of Whitetail" won't cut it. I only get to hunt once or twice a year, the rest of the year enjoy reloading, load development and generally the pursuit of a tight cloverleaf group. I don't own a serious target rifle and don't expect my hunting rifle to be one.
I recently sent a beautiful new Super Grade back to Winchester because of poor accuracy. Can't recall ever seeing a prettier piece of wood on a production rifle, seldom even on a custom. The rifle they sent back is not quite as pretty but it delivered 2 sub-MOA groups on it's first outing and averaged 1.308" for all 8 initial "try" loads. I miss the pretty one but this one shoots and looks good doing it. I felt for the price it should deliver MOA, they all but promise it in their ads.
Do I need a sub-MOA rifle to shoot a TX whitetail or 200# hog at under 100 yds? No! Do I want a very accurate hunting rifle? Yes!
Have 8 more "try" loads in my shooting bag, ready to go to the range tomorrow. Too bad it's too wet around here for yard work.;)
 
I recently changed scopes on my Rem 700VLS From a Leupold 3-9X40 to a Weaver 4X38 fixed power. I realized I always took my hunting shots on 3X. I did a little research, discovering the Exit Pupil on the 4X is 9.5, lots of light coming through.I have no regrets. It still shoots tight groups with the Weaver...
 
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Here is some real sacrilege for you, I like those little Leapers 6x40 scopes. I usually like to hunt the second week and walk around. I have a couple really light short rifles and I top them off with those scopes. I have been in downpours, snow storms, freezing rain, and fog with minimum problems. Really, nothing you would not have with any scope. It is easy to pick up a moving deer with them, and count points.( In Pa. you now have point restrictions ) It is unbelievable how hard it is to count points on a deers' rack when they are standing in a thicket. I like to take my open sighted levers out, but can't trust my eyes to see if that doe is really a spike. You have to open your mind up to other hunters' ways, not all states are the same. In the coal regions we would never have heard of the .270 if it was not for some gun writer pushing it . We have no need for one.
 
Wow, this is an old one. Fish should we dissagree about something for a while only to realize we agree once again?
~z
 
Wow, this is an old one. Fish should we dissagree about something for a while only to realize we agree once again?
Click to expand...

I didn't think we disagreed all that much to begin with. I think we all WANT a super accurate rifle. Our hunting style dictates our NEEDS. I think I'll still stick to my 1:20 figger. Thanks for reminding me to review our conversation.
 
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