Humbled today by 400 yards

I could tell right off when I looked at that photo that that was "somewheres back east" ....... the fields are not square, and lines don't run in cardinal directions...... I guess the same would be true of other "eastern" states like OH, IN, etc. ...... stuff laid out after Mr. Jefferson's "Northwest Ordinance".

The Township system laid out in that makes range estimation much easier out here: A section is a mile square, and a quarter is 880x880 yards ..... property lines generally follow the section lines .....

A good rangefinder in very nice to have, though......
 
Jimbo, we use logical things here in the east for boundaries. Trees, rocks, creeks. All those permanent things that never die or get moved.:rolleyes: Grids? That makes entirely too much sense to find practical application around here.
 
Jimbo, we use logical things here in the east for boundaries. Trees, rocks, creeks. All those permanent things that never die or get moved. Grids? That makes entirely too much sense to find practical application around here.
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I've run some service calls up in Iowa and Southern Minnesota. Lol @ grids. Nothing like being out in the middle of nowhere looking for one of 50 dairy farms and finding yourself on 247th street. "247th from where?! Where the hell am I?!"

:D Good times.
 
It was not until fairly recently that all the county roads got numbered and named- I really wondered at the necessity of putting up those silly signs ..... our tax dollars at work, doncha know! It does help keep city folk from getting lost, though ...... there are whole townships in SW Red Willow County that have no residents, but all the roads have those silly green and white signs! Why? Government, that's why.
 
Don't feel bad- it's one thing if it's close to zero value, or at least, consistent in value and speed.

You didn't mention what bullets you were using. At 400 yards, heavier, high-BC bullets are going to start to make a real difference. I wouldn't use anything lighter than 168's if you're shooting Sierra's, the 175 is better if your rifle likes it.

The .308 is more than capable, 400 yards is but a chip shot for that round- my youngest son shoots his .308 Savage at 585 yards routinely- factory barrel and all on a 10" gong- and rarely misses when conditions are decent.

Here's where we shoot- and the tall berms- and the deep, long ditch from 585 to 1000 yards makes it really "interesting" when the wind is blowing. Usually we bag it if it's going to be over 15 mph.

http://manateegunclub.com/index_files/SateliteView.htm
 
Drop, at any range is a constant. Bullet specs (BC) and velocity is all you need to figure it out, and once learned, stays the same. All you need to do to hit is adjust for the difference between your sight in range, and the actual range to your target. OF course, you have to get the actual range correct....

Wind, on the other hand is a variable, always different, often several different speeds and directions between you and a distant target.

You can calculate for wind drift, but its tougher, because of the more variables. A given bullet at a given speed will have a constant drift, per mph of wind at 90degrees. Unfortunately, that is the simplest that wind drift gets.

Mulitple directions and speeds can affect the bullet a lot on its way to a distant target.

Say, a 10mph crosswind blows you 1" to the left at 100yds. If constant, then 2" at 200, etc. But wind is not constant, usually. ITs a skill learned by practice and observation, but it can be learned.
 
That's OK, I was humbled today by a .308 at 50 yards. I thought for sure it would be easy to point and shoot and hit at 50 yards. Shot all 4 inches low. 3 holes had edges touching and the other 4 (out of 7) were several inches away.
 
44 AMP is right about cross-cut winds. I am not into the long range hunting, but do know quite a few guys that are. Some of these guys shoot from one mountain across to the other over the river and take deer and bear all the time. I was told that the wind shears along the river are really something to take into consideration. I believe that because of the way the snow blows around along the river. It is never a constant thing because of the change in temperature affecting the wind currents.
 
And while important in all distance shooting, drop and wind drift become critical in varmint shooting. A half inch wind drift error might make no difference at all on a deer, but on something where the vitial area is half the size of a soda can, it can be the difference between a clean kill and a clean miss.

A 2MOA rifle/ammo combination is fine for deer and bigger game, barely tolerable for big woodchucks (at shorter ranges) and totally unsuited for smaller animals or really long shots. Even though 2MOA means all shots will be within 1" of point of aim, for some applications its just not good enough. And that's without the complication of wind and drop.

Each caliber (cartridge and bullet configuration) will have its own specs on drift per mph of wind, and to be accurate, one needs to not only know what that is, but be able to accurately judge the wind speed, and direction relative to the bullet flight path.

You can learn the principles out of a book, but you can only learn reality from field experience.
 
2 MOA does not necessarily mean that all shots will be 1" from point of aim. 2 MOA is an angular measurement and when referencing impact vs point of aim, you need to factor distance. 2 MOA at 100 yds would be approx 2", at 200 yards would be approximately 4", at 500 yards it would be approximately 10"
 
My secret for long range target shooting is big targets. Anything past 300yds is a 4'x4' target with a 12" bullseye. That makes ranging/windage shots easier to find and adjust for.
Just aim at the up wind corner and walk your way in.
 
I really don't mean to laugh! And I'm laughing at myself! Living in WY where a light breeze is 25 - 30 mph, I have more issues shooting on a still day, lol....
ok....back to reading through the rest of the thread now :)
 
Oryx, I used to not even use MOA in my vocabulary. I guess I finally gave in to peer pressure and incorporated it in my vocabulary. To me it is almost pointless when referencing accuracy. When someone says "thats a 1/2 moa rifle" what does it mean? Is it 1/2 MOA at 25 yards or 1/2 MOA at 1000 yards? Just because a rifle will shoot 1/2" at 100 does not mean it will shoot 5" at 1000. I am exponentially more impressed with a 5" at 1000 rifle than I am with a 1/2" at 100.
 
It seems to be easier for me to stalk closer to game than to learn how to shoot better at long range.
In 2011 I was good to go at 500y with a 7mmRM if the wind was down around 4 mph on the Kestrel.

In 2012 I was good to 400y with 257RAI.

I do think it is important to find out what I can do, even if I can't improve it.
I start practicing every day a couple weeks before hunting season.
 
20%

Well you averaged 20% hits, which is twice as good as bamaboy and I did the other day.

Kid comes in from school, " Lets do some long range shooting!"

Well then, lets. Loaded a full size pistol popper in the truck and two rifles, a PSL and an F-TR-.308. Hauled that out on a nearby ridge and then motored around to the turnout on the opposite side. Breezy, too! And unknown distance. No paper to see holes, to overgrown to see bullet strikes.

Ranged it with the stadia ramp in the PSL. We got one hit out of ten with the Duraganov wanna be. (My 5 , his 5).

Then trundled out the F-T/R. And did worse! Much worse in fact. Which was a real disappointment.....until I finally started seeing traces. I had the wind way underestimated. Once we got that sorted out, we hit 4 out of the last 5.

Ended up with a full 2MOA windage and plus .25 MOA elevation on the F-T/R.
That rifle is zeroed "on" at 600 BTW. What a hoot!

The .308 shot much flatter than the x54R reloads. And simply finding and staying on the bullet smeared popper, which I did not paint, was a challenge, especially with the *X POSP scope. ( in cut over). I shold have tried milling the popper with the F-T/R scope but did not. Next time I guess.

Kid loved it and so did I!
 
I think every hunter should do a little long range shooting (> 250yds), with & without some wind. It's usually is very humbling. It shifts your thinking emphasis from shooting to hunting! Part of the problem is that few public ranges offer such long distances.
 
8" gong at 400 yards in a 12 mph wind...

That would be a low percentage chance shot for me.
But I did try it once on a deer.
There was a big doe broadside at 400 yards looking down wind in a 15 mph wind. I did not allow for wind and aimed for the front 1/3 of the body. I missed. She and the rest of the heard just kept looking at me, so I shot at the middle part of the body to allow for wind. She ran 50 yards at full speed and dropped. It went through the heart.

Since then I have started practicing at range and in different winds for a week or two before hunting season.
I am not very good, but I learn my limitations.
400 yards and NO wind, that gong would be a high percentage shot for me.
 
Any wind creates turbulence off the ground. Kite fliers (another hobby here) will note that the kite is not going to stabilize until it's about 30' in the air. Under that altitude you get ground effect, turbulence off trees, berms, buildings, vehicles, etc.

Long distance shooters (1,000 metres) have flags downrange to help them estimate what the wind is doing. I've watched one flag hanging dead, and another flapping in the breeze. -- And about the time you get "dialed in" for that windage, it changes.
 
But, if I may, I suggest taking a spotter with you.
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An experienced spotter will be an immense help.

This is also why you want a scope that has holders for wind. The Pride Fowler RR-800-1 is a scope with a great reticle that I found to be very good in the wind out to 1,000 yards.
 
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Appreciate all the input guys. Can't wait for the weather and/or my schedule to behave so I can go out and try again. I'm gonna sneak over to the weld shop this week at work and pick through the scrap and make myself some better stands; complete with windage flags, since winter doesn't seem to want to be gone yet.
 
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