Human Weapon
- Thread starter workinwifdakids
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Deaf Smith: they said at the beginning that when they re-created this stuff in modern times, they put some "safety rules" in. Kind of understandable.
The Krav Maga show was the best yet, I think.
What I'm waiting for is to see Bill in a set of Sumo diapers
. Orr...hmmm...maybe not 
.
What'll be a hoot is to see these guys try Capoeira. Or if they can find a legit source, go back to it's African roots...
The Krav Maga show was the best yet, I think.
What I'm waiting for is to see Bill in a set of Sumo diapers
. Orr...hmmm...maybe not .What'll be a hoot is to see these guys try Capoeira. Or if they can find a legit source, go back to it's African roots...
seeker_two
New member
What I'm waiting for is to see Bill in a set of Sumo diapers
Different strokes for different folks, I guess....
Have the Krav Maga taped & hope to watch it this week. I can't wait to see the USMC fighting style episode. I've re-reading my copy of "Combatives", and it is a good source for practical fighting moves for average joes....
Deaf Smith
New member
was impressed with the Krav Maga portion of the Human Weapon.
First the instructors. All ex-military or still military. The older ones had some of their family killed by the Nazis and even fought in that war. Very no nonsense. Also some were black belts in other arts (which is not supprising as it takes most of what they do from other arts.)
Notice Bill and Jason got stabbed to shreads the first time they tried to see what they could do.
The tools:
The kicks (not many of them used) were of Shotokan/TKD/TSD. I did see a few roundhouses and one backkick done in the classes.
The knees looked like Muay Thai, so did the elbows.
The punches. Some of the hands look like Shotokan while others are boxing (I liked the palm strike to the side of the face near the nose and I think it was Kempo.)
The blocks were most surely some traditional karate.
But notice the blocks and strikes done together were of JKD (called 'one timeing' or such by Bruce Lee.)
The teciniques: Basicly it was repetiton of basic punches, blocks, and kicks with emphasas on punches and blocks. Being for war wearing combat gear fancy kicks would be a bad idea. They even talked about how many times they could not kick cause they were so cloase and no room. Good combinations that have been drilled and drilled into the students head, that and aggression is what their techniques are all about.
Now the tactics: Notice they said to MOVE. Move and keep moving and not to stand still. Also the emphasas on agression. The mob training to force you to fight hard was also good (and keep fighting.. remember the student that was kicked in the balls and he tried to stop, and the instructor told him not to quit and keep fighting.)
The gun disarm was simple and good. No nosense. Notice a fine point to the technique, as you twist the hips and deflect the gun you pull the BG to get them off balance before you rip the gun from their hand.
I was also impressed with their full combat gear jog through a Hogans Ally with guys who had duffle bags to attack them with. True it was not 'tactical' but then it as more of an exercise to get used to being scared and still functioning.
And then the sparring match. Jason, being mobbed by guns, knives, hands, feet... well he was impressive. He was stabbed twice (three times and it stops) but he did very well.. although going to ground like he did would have allowed the others to mob him if the instructor had told them to attack while he was doing this thing on the ground.
Fortunatly, I recorded this one and I will watch it seveal times. There was much to learn from what they talked about.
Is is by far the best one they have shown. And Krav Maga is no BS. I sure wish I could go to Israel and train at those same places.
First the instructors. All ex-military or still military. The older ones had some of their family killed by the Nazis and even fought in that war. Very no nonsense. Also some were black belts in other arts (which is not supprising as it takes most of what they do from other arts.)
Notice Bill and Jason got stabbed to shreads the first time they tried to see what they could do.
The tools:
The kicks (not many of them used) were of Shotokan/TKD/TSD. I did see a few roundhouses and one backkick done in the classes.
The knees looked like Muay Thai, so did the elbows.
The punches. Some of the hands look like Shotokan while others are boxing (I liked the palm strike to the side of the face near the nose and I think it was Kempo.)
The blocks were most surely some traditional karate.
But notice the blocks and strikes done together were of JKD (called 'one timeing' or such by Bruce Lee.)
The teciniques: Basicly it was repetiton of basic punches, blocks, and kicks with emphasas on punches and blocks. Being for war wearing combat gear fancy kicks would be a bad idea. They even talked about how many times they could not kick cause they were so cloase and no room. Good combinations that have been drilled and drilled into the students head, that and aggression is what their techniques are all about.
Now the tactics: Notice they said to MOVE. Move and keep moving and not to stand still. Also the emphasas on agression. The mob training to force you to fight hard was also good (and keep fighting.. remember the student that was kicked in the balls and he tried to stop, and the instructor told him not to quit and keep fighting.)
The gun disarm was simple and good. No nosense. Notice a fine point to the technique, as you twist the hips and deflect the gun you pull the BG to get them off balance before you rip the gun from their hand.
I was also impressed with their full combat gear jog through a Hogans Ally with guys who had duffle bags to attack them with. True it was not 'tactical' but then it as more of an exercise to get used to being scared and still functioning.
And then the sparring match. Jason, being mobbed by guns, knives, hands, feet... well he was impressive. He was stabbed twice (three times and it stops) but he did very well.. although going to ground like he did would have allowed the others to mob him if the instructor had told them to attack while he was doing this thing on the ground.
Fortunatly, I recorded this one and I will watch it seveal times. There was much to learn from what they talked about.
Is is by far the best one they have shown. And Krav Maga is no BS. I sure wish I could go to Israel and train at those same places.
3 weelin geezer
New member
I am sure you can find it 'here' too. No need to go there to train. Most that do, its because they have other intentions in mind like the ones that go to afganistan to train for a holy war (gotta love the Gods!) they have been brainwashed into believing in. Even if you are not a looney, some may see it like that if they know.
Fun to watch but I missed that episode of Krav Maga. Seemed real interesting on the trailers.
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
seeker_two
New member
Hmmm...some of those places are relatively close to where I live (esp. the College Station one). I may have to check one out in person....
One disadvantage I have (besides being old & fat) is that I'm pretty dependent on my glasses. Without them, everything's pretty much a blur, and surgery isn't an option, according to my optometrist. So, anything I learn would have to take into account that I would be fighting "blind", so to speak...
Anyone out there teach "Krav Magoo"?....
One disadvantage I have (besides being old & fat) is that I'm pretty dependent on my glasses. Without them, everything's pretty much a blur, and surgery isn't an option, according to my optometrist. So, anything I learn would have to take into account that I would be fighting "blind", so to speak...
Anyone out there teach "Krav Magoo"?....
Sometimes martial arts reminds me of religion. Two guys argue about the translation of one word in one passage and boom, new denomination. 50 years later people write who books on the difference between the denominations, when we would all be better served observing the similarities.
I have watched a few of the human weapon episodes, and enjoy seeing how similar the techniques are even though the "styles" might have developed thousands of miles and even thousands of years apart. It could be that the human bodies' weaknesses and strengths don't vary very much over time and distance.
I had an instructor once who said sometime like, "there are hundreds of doors, you can either peek behind lots of them or open one, go inside and explore carefully", sorta like the beware of the man who has just one gun. I'm still not sure which is better though.
I have watched a few of the human weapon episodes, and enjoy seeing how similar the techniques are even though the "styles" might have developed thousands of miles and even thousands of years apart. It could be that the human bodies' weaknesses and strengths don't vary very much over time and distance.
I had an instructor once who said sometime like, "there are hundreds of doors, you can either peek behind lots of them or open one, go inside and explore carefully", sorta like the beware of the man who has just one gun. I'm still not sure which is better though.
glock glockler
New member
Justme,
Sometimes those little differences in interpretation can make a huge difference in what happens in real world situations, both in "fights" and in 1 student going off to form his own school so he can cash in and leave the organization he was apart of.
As far as the man with "one gun" goes, is he viewing the world like how a hammer sees the world as a nail, or is he simply able to make supreme use of a tool at his disposal?
Sometimes those little differences in interpretation can make a huge difference in what happens in real world situations, both in "fights" and in 1 student going off to form his own school so he can cash in and leave the organization he was apart of.
As far as the man with "one gun" goes, is he viewing the world like how a hammer sees the world as a nail, or is he simply able to make supreme use of a tool at his disposal?
Justme,
I'm with you. I like to cross-train in multiple martial arts disciplines and observe the similarities between the different styles/arts. It seems to me that, consistent with Bruce Lee's epiphany, all martial arts should be combinable into a single martial art that encompasses all human movement into a singularity of "truth."
My problem is, I strive to never be one of those guys who "dabbles" in this and that, and then eventually quits to move on to something else. So, each time I pick up a new martial arts course, I have to keep training in the old ones to maintain my skill level. I'm currently taking lessons in 5 different martial arts disciplines (iaido, kendo, jodo, karate, aikido), 4 days a week, and it's becoming quite difficult to make time to train!
Still, fascinating stuff!
I'm with you. I like to cross-train in multiple martial arts disciplines and observe the similarities between the different styles/arts. It seems to me that, consistent with Bruce Lee's epiphany, all martial arts should be combinable into a single martial art that encompasses all human movement into a singularity of "truth."
My problem is, I strive to never be one of those guys who "dabbles" in this and that, and then eventually quits to move on to something else. So, each time I pick up a new martial arts course, I have to keep training in the old ones to maintain my skill level. I'm currently taking lessons in 5 different martial arts disciplines (iaido, kendo, jodo, karate, aikido), 4 days a week, and it's becoming quite difficult to make time to train!
Still, fascinating stuff!
I agree that a person has to be careful to not see every problem as a nail when your only tool is a hammer. But I am also cognizant of the fact that if your only tool is a hammer you are probably pretty proficient with that hammer. But there are tradeoffs, aren't there always?
At a martial arts tourney I was in in the early 1980s a boxer almost won the sparing competition. He had trained in TKD for about 3 weeks. Since then I have had a great deal more respect for boxers than most martial artists seem to have.
Personally I believe that just about any religion can get you into heaven. I also believe that just about any one of dozens of martial arts can be effective. In an ideal world you could pick the one style that best suited your body type, your strengths and weaknesses and your potential opponents and then learn it well. In the real world I am of the opinion that the instructor available in your area is the single most important factor in choosing a style.
If anyone were to ask my advice, and nobody ever does, I would say to pick the style which has the best instructor in your area. Best instructor doesn't mean best martial artist either, but best teacher.
At a martial arts tourney I was in in the early 1980s a boxer almost won the sparing competition. He had trained in TKD for about 3 weeks. Since then I have had a great deal more respect for boxers than most martial artists seem to have.
Personally I believe that just about any religion can get you into heaven. I also believe that just about any one of dozens of martial arts can be effective. In an ideal world you could pick the one style that best suited your body type, your strengths and weaknesses and your potential opponents and then learn it well. In the real world I am of the opinion that the instructor available in your area is the single most important factor in choosing a style.
If anyone were to ask my advice, and nobody ever does, I would say to pick the style which has the best instructor in your area. Best instructor doesn't mean best martial artist either, but best teacher.
Mastrogiacomo
New member
I'm going to try and catch it this week. My Jeet Kune Do sifu already mentioned the show during class and said how much he enjoyed it. I keep missing it though, but will a point to watch this Friday since I'll be home.
Garand Illusion
New member
I love this show as well. Many years ago I had a roommate who was really into the martial arts. He'd studied Kung Fu so seriously he even spent a year in China.
He soon learned, however, that there is no single "perfect" art. So he started expanding how he trained and moved into other arts as well.
Interestingly ... for close in punching he felt that "American Style Boxing" was the most powerful punch.
I didn't really take him seriously, but recently I saw another show called "fight science" on one of the cable science channels where they had experts from different martial arts come in and they tested the speed and power of their punches.
The American Boxer was far and away a more powerful puncher than any of the others -- one of the weakest was the Kung Fu Punch.
Most powerful kick was from the Tae Kwando guy (though I believe it was a spinning kick difficult to use in a real world fight). Not suprising, as TKD specializes in kicks (was my art before I was old and fat).
He soon learned, however, that there is no single "perfect" art. So he started expanding how he trained and moved into other arts as well.
Interestingly ... for close in punching he felt that "American Style Boxing" was the most powerful punch.
I didn't really take him seriously, but recently I saw another show called "fight science" on one of the cable science channels where they had experts from different martial arts come in and they tested the speed and power of their punches.
The American Boxer was far and away a more powerful puncher than any of the others -- one of the weakest was the Kung Fu Punch.
Most powerful kick was from the Tae Kwando guy (though I believe it was a spinning kick difficult to use in a real world fight). Not suprising, as TKD specializes in kicks (was my art before I was old and fat).
Mastrogiacomo
New member
Jeet Kune Do uses the boxing punch for the front lead, which Bruce Lee took from Boxer Jack Dempsy.
Indeed, Justme. A boxer, after all, trains in one of the most basic techniques for fighting out there: the punch.
I don't care what type of martial artist you are, the basic block-and-punch should be your bread and butter in self-defense. Variations on "block-and-punch" are found in virtually every martial art in existence. Even aikido teaches several different forms of re-direction and "attemi" (-sp) combos, which is basically just an avoidance/block coupled with a punch.
Boxers work their lives to master several variations on this basic technique: when a threat comes forward, avoid/block the threat and punch the attacker. It's (usually) not flashy. It's not always pretty. But, it's a highly versitile technique, and useful to any one of a huge range of situations.
I don't care what type of martial artist you are, the basic block-and-punch should be your bread and butter in self-defense. Variations on "block-and-punch" are found in virtually every martial art in existence. Even aikido teaches several different forms of re-direction and "attemi" (-sp) combos, which is basically just an avoidance/block coupled with a punch.
Boxers work their lives to master several variations on this basic technique: when a threat comes forward, avoid/block the threat and punch the attacker. It's (usually) not flashy. It's not always pretty. But, it's a highly versitile technique, and useful to any one of a huge range of situations.
Deaf Smith
New member
Justme,
That is what you get when you pit an experience person against unexperienced ones. You said three weeks of training, surely he wasn't in the brown/black belt division as that takes years to get the belt.
A good boxer usually has alot of contact experience. Used to hitting, and used to being hit. And of course, even in a TKD tournament, they don't allow kicking to the legs or nuts (and I've been kicked in the nuts several times... once called 'numb nuts'.)
I've also seen kickers who have such power in their kicks if you block, your arms will break (I'm not kidding, they hit that hard.) Usually they are totaly flexable and work out daily. Strong, fast, and flexable.
Still, I like the Krav Maga cause 90 percent of the people will never get their legs in that kind of shape, and thus they need a much more practicle way of defending themselves (I've seen overweight men try to do jump kicks, and except for Sammo, they all look bad.)
And right Samurai, very basics should be the most trained techniques, trained everyday. No fancy stuff. A few punches, few blocks, and a few kicks (low or otherwise.) A few knee and elbow techniques round it out. Then work on speed and combinations of those basics. Weight train for power. Jog for stamina. And that will do the trick as for techniques.
All that leaves is awariness and seeing it coming (we hope.)
The boxer was a good boxer, had a few professional bouts in atlantic city in the late seventies, and he was indeed in the black belt division. Quite frankly I was a bit astonished at how poorly many black belts actually did in a less controlled environment than they were used to. An eye opener to say the least.
I think it's REAL important to pay attention to how any art handles a surprise knife.
If they have a plan at all, that's a plus.
The best have a primary defense that falls into one of two camps: "defang the snake" as the FMA guys call it, go in and directly control the weapon, or "get the hell out of the way and THEN counter" which is old-school Japanese and others. BOTH use off-line movements in response to the attack with an "initial dodge" effect. If the counter-attack doesn't work, at least the initial dodge bought you time. Anything like that will be noticeably linked to at least a past in sword-length arms.
The Israelis seem to have a different idea, one I'd not seen before: slam the hell out of the blade hand or arm AND attacker at the same time, while not going for strict control over the opponent weapon. But they're NOT coming from a sword-length edged weapons past; the only bladework in their genealogy is knives (and still very much present).
I suspect that's where the difference lies. I'm not qualified to comment on which is really better; the Israeli system looked OK where knives are concerned, machete or longer...no so much, esp. if somebody knew what the point was for, Mr. Krav-guy would be royally screwed (or skewered).
To me, if the core of the system doesn't know what to do about a surprise knife, it's of no interest except as a source for one or two tricks - like the Boxer's punch or Muay Thai's knee stuff.
What else...some of these "sport origin" arts have a BIG weakness: no elbow stuff. It would be too brutal for sport use. There is SO much carnage to be had out of elbows...
If they have a plan at all, that's a plus.
The best have a primary defense that falls into one of two camps: "defang the snake" as the FMA guys call it, go in and directly control the weapon, or "get the hell out of the way and THEN counter" which is old-school Japanese and others. BOTH use off-line movements in response to the attack with an "initial dodge" effect. If the counter-attack doesn't work, at least the initial dodge bought you time. Anything like that will be noticeably linked to at least a past in sword-length arms.
The Israelis seem to have a different idea, one I'd not seen before: slam the hell out of the blade hand or arm AND attacker at the same time, while not going for strict control over the opponent weapon. But they're NOT coming from a sword-length edged weapons past; the only bladework in their genealogy is knives (and still very much present).
I suspect that's where the difference lies. I'm not qualified to comment on which is really better; the Israeli system looked OK where knives are concerned, machete or longer...no so much, esp. if somebody knew what the point was for, Mr. Krav-guy would be royally screwed (or skewered).
To me, if the core of the system doesn't know what to do about a surprise knife, it's of no interest except as a source for one or two tricks - like the Boxer's punch or Muay Thai's knee stuff.
What else...some of these "sport origin" arts have a BIG weakness: no elbow stuff. It would be too brutal for sport use. There is SO much carnage to be had out of elbows...