How would this disarming technique work?

Gyuakute Waza Disarm

1. The "typical surrender" position should actually be with your hands more out to the sides instead of above your head, if your assailant lets you get away with it.

2. Forget left and right. Using the hand closest to the BG's pistol, rotate your body, as you push the hand with the pistol off you. If you rotate your body, you will reach their hand faster while you simultaneously take yourself out of line of fire.

3. Grip the top and bottom of their gun hand and pull forward (though, again, NOT towards you). This will weaken their arm and move them off balance.

4. Pivot/rotate your body. Bring their hand with you, never sweeping your body. Their pistol will end up pointing towards them, if they can't drop it, and their hand and probably at least trigger finger should be broken. Well executed, this works with knives too. If you practice with a training knife, you can see the possibilities. ;)

J.R. Shirley
 
Oh- if you're trying to "verbally distract", and someone has a firearm pointed at you, avoid saying "hurt". "Please don't hurt me" = no go. "Take the money" = go.

"Don't hurt us" = no go. "Let us go" might be all right.
 
There are a variety of techniques available, most having the similar characteristics of explosive, powerful movement dedicated toward:

1. Diverting the muzzle from your body

2. Attacking either the gun or the gunman

Accomplish the diversion stage by either striking or physically controlling or redirecting the gun or gunman's limb. There is a debate as to with is the better course. The strikers do not fare as well in training intervals.

Accomplish the attack stage, or counter-attack stage if you will, by either physically controlling the gun or delivering strikes to the gunman; or some combination as necessary. There is a debate as to which is the better course. Both sides fare well in training intervals with combinations often seen.

Anyway, they are what they are, which had better be simple, sudden, and violent. The further from that recipe... well, good luck.
 
Like I said, there are plenty of situations where the victim was 100% compliant and subsequently executed in cold blood.
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But there are far, far more situations where the victim was compliant and not injured. Fighting back is a sucker bet for most, and IMO should be reserved for those times when you are certain you are going to be injured anyway. As for your technique, I think it better if you sweep with the left and go for the throat with your right (assuming the RH is your stronger) if you are going to do that. Personally if it were me I'd forget the throat and put everything into the gun, either controlling or trying to remove it.
 
Hey guys,

Thanks for the feedback thus far. I know that disarming techniques are dangerous. I just hate being at the mercy of an unknown attacker. The problem with wait and see is it is often too late to do anything after the bad guy shoots you unexpectedly. If he tells you to turn around and marches you to a back room or tells you to get on your knees, what chances do you have at that point?

What I am saying is look for an opportunity (if it presents itself) where you have the best chances of taking control of the situation. For instance, if the gunman is within contact distance of you, you have the opportunity to act. Depending on the distance, you can make a break for it, turn a corner, or find cover. You would have to be reasonably far away to do that though and hope the bad guy isn't a great shot on moving targets.

As for my initial scenario, the surrender position I was talking about was with my hands up and to either side at head level. That way it is closer to my body and presumably the gun. The reason for pushing gun with my right hand is economy of motion (again, this is presuming the gun man is right handed and has the gun either close to centerline or to my right). Sweeping with the left involves bringing your arm down and then out. It is slower and you have less ability to sweep the gun away from your body.

As I mentioned before, the reason for the strike to the throat is that it will give you a huge advantage if the attacker is bigger than you. The throat is highly sensitive and even a decent hit will make it difficult for the bad guy to breathe. If the gunman is stronger, he would probably overpower you in a gun grab situation (without any debilitating strikes). Heck, even an eye gouge is very painful and will hinder an attackers ability to hit you. You are dealing with a much smaller target though so that is why I mentioned the throat.

I guess this is a play it by ear kind of thing and take the opportunity if it arises or becomes necessary. It never hurts to have more tricks in the bag though.
 
There are many techniques for disarming. If you are serious about learning how to disarm someone, I suggest that you study several of these systems and become proficient in them before trying to design your own.

Lindell: http://www.nletc.com/courses_details.php?id=19
Insights: http://www.insightstraining.com/us/view_course.asp?courseID=23&categoryID=4

The instructors that taught me disarming techniques said that trying to disarm someone who is pointing a gun at you is one step short of suicide.

Finally, your "method" assumes that your single strike will instantly render your attacker senseless for some period of time. That just isn't going to happen 99 times out of 100, even if you are Chuck Liddell. And you're not.

If you are trying to disarm someone, go for the gun. You must know your technique cold. You must choose the correct technique. You must apply it quickly, decisively, and with surprise. And even then, you may well get shot.

With your technique, you'd simply get shot.
 
surrender position I was talking about was with my hands up and to either side at head level
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No reason to mince words, here- this is silly. Why take your hands further away from the threat, and in a position where it will be mechanically slower to get them back? If your adversary lets you, take your hands out more to the sides than up. Think shoulder level, not head level or higher.

Let's cut to the chase. For a/n (unarmed) disarm to work, you must be able to touch the attacker. If you can't touch the attacker, or at very least their weapon, you should only make a move if you're pretty certain you're dead anyway. My stance on that is, if I'm going down, I'm going down as hard as I can.

Disarming techniques are dangerous? What the hell? You're facing a firearm. There is the implied threat of lethal force already, and you may be receiving overt threats in addition. Personally, I'd already call that dangerous.

You're overthinking some parts of this and underthinking others. Forget right/left. You sweep the threat off you with the closest hand.

J.R. Shirley
 
I really wish I had the time to get back into martial arts. I'm working about 80+ hours a week since I opened up the new restaurant. I can't wait until the managers get done with their training so I can lighten up a little. Oh well.

Again, thanks for the input. I will only try it in a last ditch effort or if the opportunity is so great that I feel I can do it safely. There are never guarantees one way or another. Maybe I'll try to get to a training seminar next time I get a break.

Major lessons learned...
1. Only try to disarm the attacker as a last ditch effort.
2. Even skilled martial artists got shot most of the time.
3. Control the weapon if possible.
4. Learn some "proven" techniques and PRACTICE.
5. Do not assume that the attacker will be debilitated with your strikes.
 
Notes from practice...

Please realize that I have not attempted to take a firearm from an attacker, and that I am only speaking from a knowledge base of training for disarms against brawling weapons (staff, baseball bat, training knife, shinai, etc...)

From a few hundred hours of practicing disarms vs melee weapons, there are two truisms I've learned:

1) Get off the line of attack. (Works better if you can close while getting off the line, but get off the line, or you get hit.)

2) Disarms that provide a leverage advantage for you, and that take the attacker's balance away, work much better than techniques that rely primarily on inflicting pain or creating surprise alone. (If his adrenaline is up, he may not feel much pain, but a loss of balance or leverage will always hurt him.)

So, from my perspective, if you don't get off the line, and take his balance, you are pretty well screwed.

Cheers,

M
 
The problem with wait and see is it is often too late to do anything after the bad guy shoots you unexpectedly.
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And the other side of the coin is that if you resist violently you often get shot when the BG had no intention of harming anyone. Again, that is the most likely outcome of these scenarios. But yes, there should be certain behaviors that you can key on, or certain actions that draw a line in the sand, that warrant the all-out defense.
 
There are many techniques for disarming and all are risky at best. Many of these have a person redirecting the weapon to either side of them. There is a problem with this concept, especially if the weapon in question is a firearm.

What if you are in a room full of people? Even if you avoid getting shot yourself an innocent bystander may be shot. There are other options other than redirecting to the left or right. Perhaps some other methods should be considered as well as professional instruction by a certified instructor. It is a helluva thing to train for, especially if you train yourself improperly.

Practice leads to patterns. Imperfect practice leads to imperfect patterns. It is best to get it right in a safe manner so as to avoid potential death or serious injury to yourself or others around you. Perfect practice will get the bugs out of the technique.

Keep it simple, if the technique require multiple movements and complicated maneuvers it is likely to fail. The more intricate anything is the easier it is the circumvent/ counter.
 
Follow on to keeping it simple...

Simple works best, true.

But one thing I learned from a few years of wrestling and a lot of years of aikido: If you have to think about the technique, you can't execute it under pressure.

If you really want to learn disarms, you need to practice them until they don't require conscious thought. Even then, your chances of success are far from guaranteed.

But if you have to think about the move, you won't be able to do it, unless you get ridiculously lucky.

Cheers,

M
 
Stephen has a good start.

1. Only try to disarm the attacker as a last ditch effort.
2. Even skilled martial artists got shot most of the time.
3. Control the weapon if possible.
4. Learn some "proven" techniques and PRACTICE.
5. Do not assume that the attacker will be debilitated with your strikes.
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Now add this:

Your attack must be spontainious. It must not be telegraphed. It must be a suprise to the gun welder.

When grabbing for the weapon, ALWAYS look away from the muzzle of the gun. If it goes off, the blast of gunpower is going 20,000 fps (for a very short distance) and that is enough to blind you from the particals if you are looking at the muzzle.

Move in such a way the weapon will not be pointed at you AND any innocents (hard to do!) Keep in mind there may very well be others present and they will be in danger from the gun's muzzle.

Once you start the ball rolling, DON'T STOP AND DON'T LOSE CONTROL OF THE WEAPON! Go all out and never give up.

I have found some of the Krav Maga methods are quite good. Any method that takes more than three moves or expects certian behavior from the one you are disarming is bound to fail. You will be dealing with a thinking resisting human and it will be a fight for your life!
 
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