How well do you know the human anatomy?
- Thread starter g.willikers
- Start date
Only if you understand that the center is on the inside of the mass---not the outside of the target. That's the point. Impact point should intersect the INSIDE center of the target.
Flat targets don't provide that option. To simulate it, you have to shoot to the side of the target if the target isn't directly facing you.
True, in an emergency, you fall back to your highest level of training. But even with someone bladed towards you in the classic FBI combat shooting pose, their body orientation is generally quartering, not truly perpendicular to you standing like a bullseye shooter. Point being any shot that traverses the region outlined by the "golden triangle" will likely inflict lethal damage.
Poindexter
New member
RN, 17 years, some OR time, some radiology time, tutored human anatomy.
I am shooting for the ribcage and carrying enough gun (.45Colt, 255gr at ~950fps) to shoot through an arm into the chest if I need to.
I agree that liver wounds bleed a lot, but they bleed -relatively- slowly because the only place for the blood to go is out the entrance and possible exit wounds. Even a single lung shot will collapse that lung and provide space for the blood to flow into, faster bleed, faster incapacitation. On a head on shot a bullet that misses the heart, great vessels and spine will likely get one lung if it hits the BG at all.
When I visualize a bladed target I am visualizing center of ribcage. If I miss the spine, and the aorta and the vena cava and the heart I am still going to get a second lung at any likely engagement distance.
Really good question though. I should practice some with an IDPA target twisted to an angle sometimes.
Thinking about it I have avoided practicing on oblique targets because shooting someone in the back hardly seems like self defense, but I need to think about this some. I pray I never have to do it, but worse case (mebbe) I shoot at a bladed assailant and miss the ribcage. Entry wound on one side of the back, bullet tunnels under the skin, smacks a dorsal process on a thoracic vertebra hard enough to stun the assailant long enough to end the fight, then the BG wakes up paralyzed from wherever down and I get to go to court.
Clearly not shot "in the back" but from the side. Morally defensible, but I got to work on my speed getting out the second half of a controlled pair to the ribcage.
I am shooting for the ribcage and carrying enough gun (.45Colt, 255gr at ~950fps) to shoot through an arm into the chest if I need to.
I agree that liver wounds bleed a lot, but they bleed -relatively- slowly because the only place for the blood to go is out the entrance and possible exit wounds. Even a single lung shot will collapse that lung and provide space for the blood to flow into, faster bleed, faster incapacitation. On a head on shot a bullet that misses the heart, great vessels and spine will likely get one lung if it hits the BG at all.
When I visualize a bladed target I am visualizing center of ribcage. If I miss the spine, and the aorta and the vena cava and the heart I am still going to get a second lung at any likely engagement distance.
Really good question though. I should practice some with an IDPA target twisted to an angle sometimes.
Thinking about it I have avoided practicing on oblique targets because shooting someone in the back hardly seems like self defense, but I need to think about this some. I pray I never have to do it, but worse case (mebbe) I shoot at a bladed assailant and miss the ribcage. Entry wound on one side of the back, bullet tunnels under the skin, smacks a dorsal process on a thoracic vertebra hard enough to stun the assailant long enough to end the fight, then the BG wakes up paralyzed from wherever down and I get to go to court.
Clearly not shot "in the back" but from the side. Morally defensible, but I got to work on my speed getting out the second half of a controlled pair to the ribcage.
Rainbow Demon
New member
A shot to the chest that goes high and impacts in the throat area is pretty devastating.
Theres not as much flesh between adams apple and spine as anywhere else and no large bones in the way.
A hit on the inside surface of the spine where it connects up with the skull is more than likely going to shut down all body movement, a sufficiently hard hit will cause internal decapitation as surely as a automobile wreck.
A Vietnam era sniper once told me that neck shots were better than head shots, partly due to possible deflection from a helmet I suppose, but mainly because he had once hit a NVA square in the head and blown most of the man's brain out and the body continued walking in a circle firing the AK till it just fell over.
A Medic told him that the last message from the brain to the spinal cord would continue to motivate the body. It was best to break the connection between brain and body. Then the target will simply drop and never again move even if the subject lives for minutes or hours.
I have seen an accident victim with half her head gone moving about on a stretcher and gabbing up a storm as if dancing at a party. That may be the thoughts going through what was left of her brain.
Several people in my home town have survived bullets in the brain. One suicide attempt where a man held a .22 rifle muzzle between his eyes and pressed the trigger with his toe resulted in the bullet simply sliding between the halves of the brain and flattening on the inside of his skull.
Another was shot in the back of the head by a woman when he pulled a gun on her husband. He had started to turn his head when the gun went off. A .38 Special bullet slid under his brain and came out under one eye. He was a bit messed up but suffered no permanent harm other than requiring surgery to repair facial muscles and nerves.
The heart is a pretty tough muscle. The major cause of death from a wound to the heart is leakage of blood into the cardial sheath around the heart, which upsets the balance and makes each heart beat less productive till not enough blood is pumped to sustain life.
Is the sheath is torn a simple penetration of the heart muscle is survivable.
A local man (a door gunner around 69-71) took two 7.62 bullets to the heart and survived, both bullets being found inside one heart chamber. That was at long range and I expect body armor slowed the bullets down.
A bullet through the pulmarnary aorta will kill far more certainly than a bullet to the heart.
The renal aorta is another quick kill, with unconsiousness coming even more quickly. Blood pressure drops near instantly.
Theres not as much flesh between adams apple and spine as anywhere else and no large bones in the way.
A hit on the inside surface of the spine where it connects up with the skull is more than likely going to shut down all body movement, a sufficiently hard hit will cause internal decapitation as surely as a automobile wreck.
A Vietnam era sniper once told me that neck shots were better than head shots, partly due to possible deflection from a helmet I suppose, but mainly because he had once hit a NVA square in the head and blown most of the man's brain out and the body continued walking in a circle firing the AK till it just fell over.
A Medic told him that the last message from the brain to the spinal cord would continue to motivate the body. It was best to break the connection between brain and body. Then the target will simply drop and never again move even if the subject lives for minutes or hours.
I have seen an accident victim with half her head gone moving about on a stretcher and gabbing up a storm as if dancing at a party. That may be the thoughts going through what was left of her brain.
Several people in my home town have survived bullets in the brain. One suicide attempt where a man held a .22 rifle muzzle between his eyes and pressed the trigger with his toe resulted in the bullet simply sliding between the halves of the brain and flattening on the inside of his skull.
Another was shot in the back of the head by a woman when he pulled a gun on her husband. He had started to turn his head when the gun went off. A .38 Special bullet slid under his brain and came out under one eye. He was a bit messed up but suffered no permanent harm other than requiring surgery to repair facial muscles and nerves.
The heart is a pretty tough muscle. The major cause of death from a wound to the heart is leakage of blood into the cardial sheath around the heart, which upsets the balance and makes each heart beat less productive till not enough blood is pumped to sustain life.
Is the sheath is torn a simple penetration of the heart muscle is survivable.
A local man (a door gunner around 69-71) took two 7.62 bullets to the heart and survived, both bullets being found inside one heart chamber. That was at long range and I expect body armor slowed the bullets down.
A bullet through the pulmarnary aorta will kill far more certainly than a bullet to the heart.
The renal aorta is another quick kill, with unconsiousness coming even more quickly. Blood pressure drops near instantly.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Shooting somebody in the back is a lot like shooting in the front in terms of the organs underneath, only if you shoot midline, you are more likely to hit the spine than from the front. Plus, you have the shoulder blades up high.
As for not being defense, that all depends on the situation. If a gunman is facing away from you and pointing a gun at your wife and you think he is about to shoot her, do you not think it would be defensive to shoot him in the back? If an intruder in your home is moving away from you toward your children's bedroom with a gun/knife in hand, do you not feel the need to stop him immediately before he does harm to your children?
Defense is situational.
Poindexter
New member
double nought spy said:
Point taken.
http://footage.shutterstock.com/cli...ody-and-internal-organs-in-loop-rotation.html
The above link will take you to a rotating representation of a human with the thoracic organs visible.
It represents a fair depiction of internal human anatomy. But one thing I learned, when I took Gross Anatomy and looked at about 10 cadavers; is that there is some variation in human anatomy from person to person.
The above link will take you to a rotating representation of a human with the thoracic organs visible.
It represents a fair depiction of internal human anatomy. But one thing I learned, when I took Gross Anatomy and looked at about 10 cadavers; is that there is some variation in human anatomy from person to person.
jason_iowa
New member
Well enough to hit any major organ. The spleen shot is overrated however. We shoot center mass because its loaded with nerves, vessels and organs. It makes it a high probability shot. If you take long enough to aim to hit the heart you are not going to survive. Lead on COM preferably with something that will penetrate through and through from any angle is your best bet.
That's why the shot placement people always crack me up. You don't place shots in combat you train and train and when combat happens you fire. If you cant draw and fire and hit COM with no sights under crappy conditions you need to train more.
That's why the shot placement people always crack me up. You don't place shots in combat you train and train and when combat happens you fire. If you cant draw and fire and hit COM with no sights under crappy conditions you need to train more.
m&p45acp10+1
New member
I know anaotomay pretty darn well. Had to take it when I was in paramedic school. There are sometimes when a person is shot that will defy the best of logic. There are some caes when you just do not know how in the world a person survived.
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Double Naught Spy
New member
At 1 yard, 3, 5, 15, 25, or 50?
We used to run drills with the sights taped up. I could still pass the Texas CHL with no problem, but that was becasuse most of the points were scored by 7 yards.
