How to shoot D/A and still hit something???

DA Shooting

Lots of good advice, please allow me to add; I shoot nothing but DA at all distances - that includes the 50 yard prone; I teach others to shoot the same way. If you have a .38/.357 revolver you can buy some Speer plastic ammo which will allow you to practice in your garage (or any place where no one will walk into the line of fire- for .38 the Speer #s are 8510 & 8515. This is a plastic case which takes a large pistol primer (you can insert the primer with your thumb and push it home on a hardwood block) & a plastic bullet that you push in by hand - you can remove the spent primers with an ice pick. Do not be careless - this plastic bullet powered only by the primer packs a wallup - you need a large box stuffed with rags to "catch" the bullets which are reusable. With this setup you can practice daily without a trip to the range. Maximum distance for accurate placement is about 7 yards, but at that distance you should be able to place your shots into a 2 inch circle. Speer makes something similar for .44 Special, I think. For .45 ACP they offer a bullet only - you have to use standard cases with the flash hole enlarged and you will need a Lee AutoPrime to seat the primers. Due to the light hammer fall on my 25-2s I use only the Lee AutoPrime and Federal Primers for reloading with a Dillon press.

When my children were home this is the set-up I kept in my duty gun (S&W Model 10 which I am sure dates me!) on the weekends at home. I changed the load every day when I went on duty but for nights at home and weekends, it was the Speer. My logic was if one of the kids (although taught better) were to shoot the gun it would wound but not kill AND if I had to use it against a burglar I was comfortable that the muzzle flash, noise and impact would convince him he had been shot. You may disagree with this premise but my point is this plastic ammo is neat stuff and a lot more powerful than you might think. It is great for learning DA shooting at minimum cost and investment of travel time.
John
USPSA # 778
 
I'm going to have to agree with longspurr on this one...

longspurr said:
To shoot quickly double action the trigger must be pulled quickly but smoothly all the way through. Practice, Practice, Practice, is the name of the game but fast & accurate DA can be done.
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Think about the reason for doing this. If you need to get the gun into action, you won't have time to stage the trigger. Walking around with the gun in single action is also pretty dangerous as the trigger pull is very light and requires very little travel before going off. I only have one revolver but I do the same with my DA/SA guns. A quick, smooth, and consistent pull gets me much better groups. You might be slightly more accurate if you pull really slowly but what is the practical application?

One very important thing is finger placement on the trigger. If you stuff your finger in up to the first joint, you have a greater chance of pulling your shot. Try to use the pad of your finger on the trigger. If you cannot pull the trigger without stuffing your finger up to the first joint, get a spring job. Getting your action polished and cleaned up doesn't hurt either.
 
I will add in one thing that has not been mentioned.

In my journey from single action to double action pistols and now with revolvers I discovered early on a secret that allowed me to tighten up my groups.

You have to train your hand to squeeze the grip hard enough that your trigger finger can operate independantly. Your trigger finger should not cause you to move the gun from side to side or to pull it down.

So when you are practicing, try squeezing the grip real hard. Find the level of squeeze that you need to let your finger operate without affecting the revolver. The level of squeeze you will have to apply will be a direct function of the trigger weight.

I had a sigma that was extremely accurate under extremely slow fire but I could not shoot it even reasonably fast to save me. I have an N frame that I am still working to get the hang of. But I have a little SA/DA Browning and a j frame that I can blast away with great accuracy because I have the grip trigger combo figured out and have practiced that combo enough that it is now second nature. DA's are different, but you can master them.
 
.22LR Snap Caps? Dryfire a .22LR revolver empty?

Hi folks,
Thanks for sharing all the insights on this - I am learning a great deal. I have been trying to find some .22LR snapcaps. So far, I have learned that:
- Not many people make .22LR snapcaps
- The ones that are out there are supposed to shatter according to the product reviews I've seen

I tried using some spent .22LR casings as was suggested - but when I got home from the range, I still emptied the cylinder to verify that all the "empties" were truely empty. Once I took them out, they were'nt so happy to go back in (seemed tight), and at least half wouldn't lay flat because the rim is deformed. Any ideas??? Is it bad to just dryfire with an empty revolver? Kind of stumped here, because I know I need this kind of practice, but can't see a way to get it.

Best,
Carbine
 
Getting that trigger-finger good and strong helps. One thing I do religiously is fifty DA dry-fires a night with my strong hand and a like number with my weak hand, as fast as I can pull the trigger. Even with the sub-8lb. trigger on my 296 purse gun (my most often used practice gun) this isn't as easy as it sounds: "Onetwothreefourfive ... Twenty-nine. Thirty. Thirty-one. ... Forrtyy-siiix... Forrtyy-sevenn... *grunt* *strain* Fifty!" I'll wind up with forearms like Popeye, but you wouldn't want to finger-wrestle me. :D

While a good DA shooter can shoot a bad DA trigger well, it's hard to learn good DA form on a bad trigger. Take a leaf-sprung (medium- or large-frame S&W or Colt) centerfire gun and spend the bucks to have the trigger brought down to something smooth, light, and free of stacking. This will make it dramatically easier to develop a smooth and even trigger stroke.

As with so many other facets of the shooting hobby, get smooth first. Speed will come.
 
I didn't even know that snap caps were made for .22s. As for using spent shell casings, I think that is defeating the purpose. The firing pin should hit in the same place each time and the casing will already have been dented. Im not sure about your revolver but on my GP100, I can see how far the firing pin sticks out by lowering the hammer (gently) on an empty cylinder and looking in the gap behind the cylinder. The firing pin does not travel far and that is the idea behind the snap caps. Maybe you should get another revolver in a larger caliber to you can practice with snap caps. Besides, people will always find excuses to buy new guns! :D :p :eek:
 
Double Action shooting?

One or two things should help your double action shooting...
Have your gunsmith do:
Give your revolver what use to be called a service tune.
Have the gunsmith change the trigger return spring.
 
Dry-firing practice is really important. Leave all live ammo in another room. Find a nice, safe wall and put some marker on it such as a 1- or 2-in. dot. Align the sights, focus on the front sight and do some dry firing while trying to keep the front sight as steady as possible.

At the range take a styrofoam coffee cup or something and draw some circles on sides of targets or on typing paper. Load the revolver with a mixture of live and dummy rounds. Work at about 21 feet and try to put all the live rounds inside a circle using DA. Don't neglect the weak hand. That will smooth out your DA technique, help improve your sight alignment and lessens the flinching tendency.
 
There is a modern tool that can certainly help... the Crimson Trace lasergrips. The laser spot enables you to clearly see the effect of your hand/trigger action on the point of aim. People who have bought them for self-defense use uniformly report an improvement in the steadiness of their hold/aim/release.
 
Caleb,
Lose the squishy rubber grips on that bad boy and get some real ones made of wood.
Like everythng else in the world,,,you need a good solid foundation to start with. Squishy rubber grips don't cut it for good D/A learning.
 
My current obsession is working on DA marksmanship. What a kick! Requires full attention for me right now and I am working on 'muscle memory'. It is easy on the pull through to fail to concentrate on the final bit.

It's really essential to be able to remember or describe in detail exactly what your finger felt like (pulling straight back?), what your grip felt like (firm enough?) and what the sights looked like all the way until the bullet hits the target. If not able to do that, there was probably a lack of attention/semi flinch that is hurting your score.

Using some dud cylinders does wonders. I will be backing down on loads for my use to see what that does as I usually am shooting .38 spl loaded to about 900+ fps.
 
CarbineCaleb

I have read many of the responses here as well as your posts. I have no secret formula to DA shooting. May I humbly suggest you seek professional guidance in your quest. You said you are close to KTP in Maine. (my .41 Mountain Gun came from there) That being the case I happen to know where you might find a suitable instructor in nearby New Hampshire. Bob Macowski holds regular classes at the Major Waldron Sportsman’s Association on Route 9 in Barrington.

http://www.majorwaldron.com/ .

Bob is a retired LEO. He is an NRA instructor and is the head of the Personal Defense Class at MWSA. He has shot competitively and taught experienced LEOs and brand new shooters basic, intermediate and advanced handgun shooting. He has told me several times he has taken brand new shooters and over the course of a weekend they are safely shooting DA and keeping them all in the black at the 7yd line.

If you would like to talk to or email Bob click on or paste the link above, and scroll down to the contact numbers at the bottom of the page. Use the information next to the Indoor Range.
If I lived closer you can bet I’d be there……..

Rick
 
There is a modern tool that can certainly help... the Crimson Trace lasergrips. The laser spot enables you to clearly see the effect of your hand/trigger action on the point of aim.
Click to expand...

Indeed! Lasergrips are the best training aid since the snapcap. :cool:
 
BusGunner007,

No fun. Nothing more satisfying than watching those buggers populating the 10 ring, uh, 9 ring, uh, 8 ring... Well, mostly in the black at 15 and 25 yards. Can't wait for 50 yards.

Actually, there is a stage used at the International Revolver Championships every year called the Near and Far Standards. Starts at 50 yards either prone or from uprange holstered if offhand (some shooters have legs or bellys that get in the way). I do not believe I have ever seen a shooter using SA.
 
Sift through the above information, find what works best for you, exercise your hands, wrists and grip ( Squeeze a tenis ball, lift weights, etc.). When you find a grip and style that is comfortable for you, practice a lot, weak side as well as strong side. It will become easy for you with a little of your time and effort.

Don't think of this as work but as a sport. You will get metter than you thought possible.


Mark
 
The big problem I see with Laser Grips is it TEACHES you not look at your sights.
If you want to see where you hit, get something like the Beam hit laser that goes in the bbl and fires when the hammer drops. Shooting a red dot onto the target where you hit. And when you watch your sights you can still see the red laser dot where you hit.
Dry fire reps each night to strengthen your fingers and do the last 15 while aiming at a target you can see real well will show you your bounce and wobble.
And just practice and practice some more
 
Making some progress

Well, working the action a lot has smoothed it up a good deal, and I have ordered a lighter tension spring kit from Wolff, which should help a lot more on keeping the sights steady on D/A pull. Maybe I can even put it in myself? Any special tools needed or just a screwdriver and needlenose pliers?

I have been working on refining my grip on the revolver, and exercising both index fingers.

The front sight on this thing is just a black post, which is almost impossible to see at my local range (it's indoor and owner is cheap with lighting). I've put the brightest yellow! nail polish I could find on it, and the guy I spoke with at Hi-Viz says the 617 is next on the list for a fiber optic front sight.

I like a challenge, and won't give up until I can properly shoot D/A! Thanks for all your tips. :)
 
My serious carry revolvers are all DAO. Once the basics are learned, its not that difficult to keep all you shots in the black at 7 or 10 yards.
 
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