How to shoot D/A and still hit something???

C

CarbineCaleb

New member
Hi folks - I am a passable revolver shooter, but always fire in single action, with my right thumb working the hammer. Can get some rythym that way and shoot with reasonable accuracy at about 1.5 seconds per shot (wild asss guess).

I would like to be able to also shoot in *double action*, as Eghad was indicating that this is actually faster if you know what you are doing. That leaves me out at this point though :o

Any tips for double action firing? I have only shot a few cylinders that way - it is one long and heavy pull, and my groups opened up considerably even when I pulled slow... I never even tried to shoot fast that way, but I am guessing I would just jerk the trigger - but who knows where the bullets will go then? In front of me, I am confident, but beyond that - hmmmm?

On the plus side, I have just purchased a 4" S&W 617, and this should be the ideal training tool. :D

How does one manage to shoot a revolver quickly in double action and still hit something? Oh great Gods of revolverhood, speak and share your wisdom with me please! :confused:
 
What I did..

Learn the break point first..

Then, I placed a dime on the top strap of my M15, and worked at squeezing the trigger without knocking it off. Worked after a short while. Next dry fire session I put the dime on barrel where it meets the frame, had a harder time of it and it took a few practice sessions but I got it eventually..

Generally speaking, squeezing it with deliberate care will get accurate results, especially if you can keep steady while doing it.. after that, you got no where to go but up.
 
CarbineCaleb,

The only way to get good DA hits is to practice, practice, and then practice some more. On some DA's you can "stage" the trigger by slowly squeezing until just before it "breaks". At that point, line up the sights with the target and complete the squeeze.

On guns that have no "stage point", it just takes more practice. Once you know the gun, you'll be able to tell at what point the trigger will "break". Dry firing will help in building up your arm and hand muscles, aid with muscle memory, and is a cheap way to do an action job. Start slowly and, as you get used to DA shooting, speed will come naturally.

The only time I fire SA is while I'm testing a new gun, adjusting sights,or testing ammo. With practice and time, you'll be surprised at how accurate DA shooting is,

John
 
I would ship the 617 to a good gunsmith. The action needs to be cleaned up and polished. A spring or three could be replaced and the firing pin should be replaced. A trigger pull of roughly 2-3 lbs single action and 4-6 lbs double action is possible with proper parts, geometry changes and gunsmith polishing of internals. Then you can put a dime on the barrel and shoot better with practice. Polishing, parts replacement and practice are needed.
 
I’m going to disagree with 298 here “On some DA's you can "stage" the trigger by slowly squeezing until just before it "breaks". At that point, line up the sights with the target and complete the squeeze.”

What he describes can be done and is done for slow fire shooting – it’s not much faster than cocking for each shot and usually not as accurate as single action.

To shoot quickly double action the trigger must be pulled quickly but smoothly all the way through. Practice, Practice, Practice, is the name of the game but fast & accurate DA can be done. It used to be done regularly by the folks in PPC leagues. The revolver works well with light loads and a favorite trick of only loading 3 to 5 rounds per cylinder so that jerking or other faults can be easily seen.

A bit of gunsmithing by a Pro or yourself if you want to experiment with springs can really help. A moderately heavy pull isn’t a determent to quick shooting, but the action must be smooth.
 
I agree. Staging the trigger will only prolong your inability to shoot it well. Pull the trigger all the way thru quickly and smoothly. The hard part is NOT staging the trigger because you will instinctively want to.
 
This is my opinion, based on 40 years of hangun shooting. Most of it with revolvers. The first step is to get your stance right. Stand so you are comfortable. Feet placed about 12in apart and knees just slightly bent. Next is your grip. Right hand on the butt with the web between thumb and forefinger at the top of the backstrap. Make sure you have the same grip every time. Thirdly, and in my opinion most important, put your finger through the trigger so that you pull/squeeze with trigger in the first joint of your trigger finger (yep - I know not everybody agrees with this. Maybe they have short fingers?). Lift the gun up to the target, arms straight. Get your sight picture and shoot. Make sure you focus on the front sight, doesn't matter if the target is blurred. No eye in the World can focus on both objects at the same time. And don't be concerned if there is a little wobble, just shoot without trying to snatch the shot when you get a 'perfect' sight picture.
I may have overlooked something - some things are just taken for granted.
If I have I'm sure someone else will add it.
 
Find some suitable snap caps for your 617 too. Probably empty brass. Replace them frequently.

Staging is a good drill to develop fine control over the trigger finger. It's a good club to have in your golf bag so to speak.

Here's a vid of me working it.

http://www.alvarfamily.com/625.MOV
 
Good stuff!

Hmmm - lot's of great tips here already folks - thank you very much! There's a big place up in Maine (Kittery Trading Post) that I can buy snap caps at this weekend to keep the innards safe while I practice - want to try to begin working the dime trick, and it sounds like, trying to build trigger finger strength to better do it smoothly. :d

I will try to find a gunsmith in the area (Eastern MA) who has some rep for working on S&W revolvers to do an action job. Are S&W revolvers common enough that I can expect any gunsmith at say a good-sized gunshop to do it okay? Or best to send it off to some big-rep place (like the S&W Performance Center)? I'd prefer to use someone locally if the result will be about the same, as that would save shipping costs and time.

Sir William: what does replacing the firing pin do? What is the difference on the "hot rod" part? ;)
 
Coming to grips with the revolver grip

SnWnMe - looks impressive. What I could take away from that little clip, actually, is that it looks like you are using a higher strong hand grip than I do... just like Blue Heeler said I should do. (Either that or you guys have bigger hands, which is also possible, as I have small hands for my size).

I have more experience with a semiautomatic, where my understanding is the high grip is used to control muzzle flip. Is it the same deal here, or is it also helpful for trigger control?
 
www.cylinder-slide.com They offer gunsmithing, better than factory parts and classes too. S&W has changed their firing pins and geometry to assure positive ignition. This is part of why recent S&Ws have almost 12 lbs triggers. One simple exercise is to make a relaxed fist. Pull your index finger just as you would the trigger. Repeat 12 times and relax between reps. Watch your arm and you can see the muscle group.
 
Dry fire with the dime like johnathon said and then a whole crapload of light loads. Really light loads, you're just learning the trigger here. Move up slowly in loads. Learn to walk before you learn to run.
 
I had not done much shooting for quite a few years with pistols. When I did it was usually with my 1911s. I recently took the CCW class from a local sheriffs dept. We started out using the dept's DA S&W Revolvers.... hehe

The instructor told us what he wanted(btw he is also an isntructor for LEOs) told us he wanted one continous rearward pull on the double action trigger. At first I was doing the staging thing..shots not in a tight group...of course he reminded me, I gave in to the "force" and used the continous application of pressure to the rear on the trigger till it broke...while maintaining sight alignment.. my groups improved a bunch...

I got to qualify with my 1911... :D

but now I feel more comfortable with a DA Revolver and can assure you that I will never pull the hammer back and do it single action style

The DA Revolvers we used have been well used so I am sure the action was well honed... I too would also suggest a trigger job.
 
Lots of practice. I don't see a problem with staging the trigger. Speed will come with practice. I was in a similar situation years ago wanting to learn to shoot the revolver double action. I reload so that helps!! My brother and I just started to take our revolvers out with us everytime we went shooting and shot off about 150-200 rounds each time. A couple thousand rounds later groups got better and shots got faster too. I have come around to the revolvers again and have been shooting them a lot lately. I too got a 617 10-shot with the 4" barrel. It has a heavier trigger than the 686, but I am keeping it that way for now.....it's like strength training!! I like that 617 a lot and make sure to take it out along with the 686. I start off with the 617 and as the holes get to numerous to spot I switch to the 686 were the larger holes can still be spotted. If you flinch with the 617, you really don't need to waste the more expensive .38 Special ammo. Start off close, like 7 yards so you can spot your shots easily and not get too discouraged by the group size and as things tighten up move out further. Good luck.....
 
How To Shoot D A Accurately

First go to www.uspsa.org and use the 'Club Finder' function, go to your local club(s), watch, ask, try, learn, enjoy!

Oh, you'll be shootin' IPSC.
You'll like it.
It WILL teach you DA control, whilst having fun.

It is possible........made C Class using Redhawks in all four calibers......shooting DA only.......A33102.

See you there?
 
Great tips mentioned above. As for practice, one way I accomplished that is to buy a CO2 pellet revolver with a 10-round "cylinder". That way I could practice in the garage shooting it DAO. It really helped me shoot my other revolvers well, as I had grown up shooting the ones I had SA, and am more of an auto guy. Now I am enjoying the process of rediscovering revolvers. I feel confident carrying my S&W M60 as a CCW. And now I can actually hit something with that first pull on my P226!
 
Thanks for sharing all the experiences folks - extremely helpful! I have been playing at "staging the double action trigger" at home while empty, and if I go slowly, it looks like the setup is a heavy pull to the sound of two "clicks" and a cylinder index advance (and hammer retreat); and after that very close to the single action firing.

I just got it, so am loathe to send it away for a month or so right away, but I will definitely get an action job on it. Right now I can certainly do the double action pull, but it is so heavy that the sights wiggle too much with the effort. So both a stronger finger and a lighter trigger should help out a lot. The 617 and I will be spending a lot of time together, defending against furniture and hitting TV bullseyes :cool:

It may be from all my computer work, but it seems like my left trigger finger actually is stronger than the right - and I am right handed!
 
CarbineCaleb

Than you for asking that question. Unless I'm close in, I can't hit squat with a wheelgun. You have received some good advice, I'm going to go to school on!!! :D
 
The thing I've found about DA revolver firing is that it involves learning a whole stroke, so to speak, not just a single motion of the trigger finger. Your arms, hands and fingers have to develop a muscle memory so they all work together in holding that gun steady and keeping the sight picture in place as you pull that trigger back.

Col. Cooper once compared mastering the trigger control for a SA handgun to learning a goosestep, while mastering the control of a DA revolver trigger is like learning to waltz. Now, I ain't waltzing yet, but I've done just enough DA sixgun shooting to begin to appreciate the truth of his observation.
 
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