How to safely and legally sell (legally) unregistered guns?

R

Ruffian

Inactive
Hello everyone. My name is Laura, and I was directed here from another forum where I posted this very question. I would love your experience and input to help me (us) know what to do.

The situation: My father passed away in February, leaving his large collection of guns and ammo behind. Dad was a hunter, so most are for that purpose, but there are a few handguns as well.

Apparently, the rifles and guns are not registered; supposedly, they were not required to be at the time of purchase. (Nearly all of these guns are 20+ years old, with the exception of one rifle.)

No one in my family wants the guns, including my widowed mother, but we do not know a dang thing about what to do with them. We know some of them are fairly valuable, but not how valuable, and more importantly we don't know the legal way to go about selling them. Though Dad was a gun nut, none of us were--which means we all know precisely jack squat about the ins and outs of selling/buying/pricing/registering.

What's the best approach for this that is both legal, safe (gah, don't need people showing up randomly for a "guns for sale" ad) and assures fair price?

FTR: We're in California, if that affects anything, although only one of the guns that I/we know of was actually purchased in this state. I don't know how many guns there are, and I don't know specific models or types beyond "handgun(s) and rifles." Well--I think one is a 9mm, and another is a 22 rifle...but don't quote me.

Also, this should seem obvious, but...please don't try soliciting info about the guns; it's not why I'm here. I'm lost enough as it is.

Thank you so much!
 
I dont know about ins and outs about selling in California. But I can tell you Dont sell them to a gun store you will never get close to what they are worth. If they take them on consignment you can get close the vaule. Plus the can help you with any legal questions. I hope helps.
 
What's the best approach for this that is both legal, safe (gah, don't need people showing up randomly for a "guns for sale" ad) and assures fair price?
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No way to assure fair price unless they are sold one at a time by some one who knows the value of each one. That could take quite a while.

A gun shop on consignment seems as good a way as any to get an average fair price. The advantage of going through a reputable gun shop is the availability of an FFL (Federal Firearms License) right there on premise. Many gun shops will go through estate properties like this and give the family estimates as purchase offers or as consignment values.

If you could get an accurate list of everything, there are some of us here that could give estimates of a fair price for each piece. You could post such the list right here and get estimates in reply posts, if you're comfortable doing that.

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Gbro, I hope we can help. Thanks for the vote of confidence. We have some stand up members here that will help if they can.

As a matter of fact we have a Buy, Sell & Trade forum right here, but I sense you are not looking for a prolonged sale, piece by piece ...?
 
Unfortunately, being in California very, very much complicates what would otherwise be fairly easy, simple and straightforward.

What you need right now is someone in California who is a good, upstanding and honest "gun guy." If you were in Ohio, I'd be honored to help. But I'm not close and I don't know the specifics of CA laws with regards to firearms other than "I HATE 'EM!" ;) Most gun folks do. Places like "Illinois", "California" and "Maryland" are nearly cuss words to gun people!

California is one of the tougher states in the country with regards to gun restrictions. That's not really a surprise to most people... If it's something highly regulated, California tends to be a leader in that field.

In many/most states, firearms are completely legal to be sold face to face by private (non-dealer) citizens. In California and a few other states, some guns are restricted by their ammo capacity or an "approved" list and some transactions must involve dealers. CA is particularly snotty when it comes to handguns whose origin is from out of state. I'm not sure how it works, but it's likely a slew of red tape.

I wish I had better suggestions, but I can only offer the basics. I would really, really recommend that you NOT go to a gun store or a gun show lest you get picked apart by some vultures. If you have the energy to learn a bit (or at least try?) then there is a price guide that is pretty much -the- standard reference for values. It won't make you any good at judging condition, but it might get you at least a reference point.

The book is "The Blue Book of Gun Values" and I think it's in it's 30-something edition. The author is S.P.Fjestad, not many names like it, so it should be easy to find.

I know we've got some really stand-up folks here in this forum that are in California... I'd like to see one of them step up to the plate. You need to find someone you know, or someone that someone you trusts can trust.

You need a gun guy, and a decent citizen, and he needs to be in CA, and then you need to trust him.

He's out there... and I hope you find him.
And I'm sorry for your loss. :(
 
I think you need to have someone look at the collection before anything else. California has some 'Do not own' firearms that I would think if you came across you'd be best off contacting your attorney before trying to sell. Maybe a call to the Department of Justice might be a good idea. I'm sure they deal with estates on occasion.
 
I would NOT be doing that right away.
For a lot of governmental agencies (from local yokel all the way to the ATF) it is most likely MUCH EASIER for them to simply arrive, take all of it, and tell you that you did the right thing. You won't even get a tax write off.

I'm sure the intent of the suggestion was a good one, but I would leave that as a MUCH later option when others have been explored.
 
Find an honest gun dealer. Have the guns appraised and ask him to sell them on consignment for you. You will not get the full value of the guns because most dealers will keep about 10% of what they sell for. Just make sure it is someone that you trust. It wouldn't hurt to do a little research ahead of time so you have a pretty good idea what they should sell for. If there is a family friend that knows guns it would help.

Even though face to face sales are legal here I have had more luck getting more money going the consignment route. A lot of people are afraid to buy from an individual. A lot more people see my guns everyday when sitting in a busy gunshop as well. It may take a while to sell them all regardless of how you do it. Some will sell quickly, others may take a year or more.
 
don't need people showing up randomly for a "guns for sale" ad
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To be clear: California requires firearms sales to be performed through a licensed dealer, so there are no private sales. If you run an ad, the transaction must be completed at a dealer.

Ruffian, what part of California? Maybe someone can direct you to a good dealer. If your dad had hunting buddies, they may be good, too.

Sorry for your loss.

Lee
 
First thing I'd do is look carefully at each gun and try to identify it. Most of them will have the manufacterer, model, and caliber stamped into the barrel somewhere. Seperate out the guns you can identify vs those you can't. Then you can google what you identified to find out more about them or use a site like budsgunshop.com or gunbroker.com to get a rough idea what they're worth (Gunbroker is an auction site - bud's is probably your best bet). This will give you a rough idea on the value of the gun. Even if you found old paperwork/reciepts you'd probably not be able to determine the value of the guns, prices have risen dramatically the last few years.

Depending on your feelings, you might want to consider setting aside 2 or 3 of the guns for grandkids. While nobody in your family may currently have an interest, you never know who's going to get the bug. You'll never hear the end of your kids' lamentations about the time "Mom sold off all of Grandpa's guns!" A shotgun, hunting rifle, and maybe a handgun would be a good choice.
 
jmr40 has a very good idea, assuming someone can direct you to an honest dealer who will take consignments. See if one of your fathers friends, hunting buddies, can help you find a good dealer to talk to. A knowlegeable dealer should be able to assist in understanding Californias onerous regulations.

The last thing I'd consider at this point in time is contacting any governmental agency. Too easy for them to just say the guns are illegal and try to consfiscate them.

Good luck
 
Get a full and comprehensive appraisal of all of the guns...doen by someone who is absolutely not going to purchase the guns. The appraisal should not only tell you price, but let you know if they can be legally owned in Cali or not. The appraisal should be private and only given to you. Then get an independant and trusted licensed firearms dealer to help you decide how to best go about liquidating them.
 
Thanks, everyone. This is quite overwhelming to us, so it's good to have the experience and expertise of all of your input.

1-Up, I think we are saving a few of the guns, though I'm not sure. Funny, while Dad had all girls, his girls all had boys, and I think at least my sister's son might be interested in one. My son--at 3--has a ways to go, heh, but it's something to consider. Not sure what the bun who's still cooking is.

I need to call my Mom today and share what I'm learning. She's moving into a much smaller house in a month or so, and she doesn't want to take Dad's massive gun safe with her. I've heard her kicking around various ideas, but just taking the guns to a dealer may prove the easier path for her. She gets them out of the house all at once, it's legal, and she'll be sent payment as the individual guns sell.

I need to find out what, exactly, the guns are. I think his big gun is a Weatherby (he showed it to me when he bought it; told me it was a step below an elephant gun...used it, successfully, to hunt elk), but I don't know the specific model. Everything else is a throw-my-hands-up-in-the-air thing. I don't even know how many there are (hubby says there are many). Maybe what I can do is next time we're over--she's an hour+ away--we'll go through and find out what they are, after having Dad's hunting buddy neighbor ensure they aren't loaded.

Johnwilliamsson, we'll be getting pictures when we manage to get over there and catalog what he has.

Immcrock, my mother lives in Ventura County, if that helps narrow things down. (I'm in eastern LA County, about 15 miles east of Pasadena, if there's someone around here.)

What should we do about all of the bullets and other gun accessories?

Thanks so much, again. I think this is what it would be like if Dad were trying to sell all of my horse supplies and tack--"I don't know what it is, what it's for, or how much it's worth, but I know there's a lot of money wrapped up in these things..."
 
Best of luck to you, whatever you and your mother and family decide, Ruffian.

Yes, a comprehensive list with as many details as possible on each piece of your father's "firearms estate" will help immeasurably, no matter which route you decide to take.

My condolences to you and the family on the loss of your father.

If you do manage to get pics, we will be more than happy to help you identify and maybe valuate any pieces your father left. This might be a good place to come and check on any offers you receive.

Take care of Mom.
 
Another option, once you get the information on each gun together, would be to call one of the gun auctioneers like James Julia in Maine, or Rock Island. They might be able to help with values as well, and if any are valuable, they do auctions several times a year - both have been around a while and stellar reputations for honesty and above board behavior
 
I'll also vouch for the Rock Island Auction - good folks who run a top quality good clean auction. You can't do any better than the Rock Island Auction.
 
Did your dad belong to a gun club? If he did there is a wealth of expertise among his comrades there and out of all of them there will be at least one stand out guy who is the acknowledged gun guy. Get somebody like that to do the inventory and evaluation of the condition of the guns, that makes a big difference in asking price. It sounds as if he was a hunter/shooter and most likely does not have any proscribed guns, if there is any question on any of the guns your gun club guy will more likely know. Consignment sounds like your best bet but you still want an independent person with no monetary interest to do the evaluation even if you have to pay them a set fee for his work. If he was a friend or acquaintance they will probably do it for nothing. Good luck and I hope everything is resolved soon for you and your mother.

Note: My 300 Weatherby is a $2100 gun because it is semi custom, You can get a similar used gun for less than $700. I am just pointing this out so that you know there is more than just make and model number that goes into pricing a gun.
 
Ruffian, I'm a gun dealer in Michigan and do a lot of business with gun dealers in California. I'm pretty familiar with the CA laws on guns and such. Generally all transactions must be done at a dealer, including private party sales. You bring the gun in, the buyer pays all the dealer fees. Do NOT let them talk you into paying any fees. That's (traditionally) the buyer's deal. They pay you for the gun(s), they pay the dealer for their services.

Since the guns are in Ventura County, I have a few dealers there I do business with. They might be willing and able to help you with IDing the guns you can't. I'm sure they could sell some on consignment.

Both places I have in mind have been great to work with. They are both closed on Monday but have Tuesday hours.

Fort Courage Armory is in Simi Valley and their number is 805-526-6563. Uncle Paul's Exchange is in Ventura and their number is 805-659-5000. Ft Courage's consignment is 20%. I don't know if Uncle Paul's does consignment or what their fee is.

Tell them Adam from Freakshow Manufacturing recommended them. They know who I am.:D

Most of my contacts in CA are in NorCal (Sac, Fresno, Ione, etc). Another place to check out is join up at calguns.net. It's a CA gun owners forum. Post in the general discussion subforum there and someone local will be able to help you sort through all the stuff and price everything. There's some good guys there.
 
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