How to resize the rim on a 223

If you are getting extractor/ejector marks try some middle of the road loads first. If you are still damaging your brass and you are using a gas gun, it may be overgassing. My AR 308 was tearing up brass from the factory, an adjustable gas block solved everything.
 
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Jeephammer, I don’t really care if the case rim fits the case gauge. The rifle likes the brass, which is sized to the chamber and not to the case gauge, so there’s no problem.

I might mic it anyway, just to see if the brass is in spec or my gauge isn’t.
 
Tuning gas in AR rifles makes the rifle shoot so SO much smoothe & cycle better, keeps brass from being beat up, and generally it's really easy.

603, we were talking brass, not 'Your' rifle.
The OP was talking several firearms, not just ONE particular firearm.

The scope gets MUCH smaller when talking one particular firearm,
Your world as a reloader expands greatly when you try to produce brass that is SAAMI specification.
Since I'm not producing military brass, I work towards civilian specification, which is SAAMI.
When I produce brass for a specific firearm, I do the same thing everyone else does, make the brass fit the chamber, no matter how out of specification that chamber is.
 
Machineguntommy,

High pressure is generally the cause of CHE (case head expansion; an old form of load development pressure sign), but it's pressure that is high for the brass, and not necessarily high for the gun. A number of folks complain that Federal case heads are softer than some others and expand too readily.

Be aware that head expansion usually leads to loose primer pockets. A good rule of thumb is that if your primer pockets get too loose to hold a primer well within five loading cycles, you should back the load off 5% in that brass.

You'll have to ask Jeephammer if the roller dies push primer pockets back inward together with the head or not? They might, but they also might do more to thicken the rim than get the pocket diameter back in shape.

One other thing I've seen is case heads with bent rims or that were angled slightly by a bolt face that isn't quite square with the chamber axis (The M14 is famous for causing this). Set a bunch of fired cases up on a flat surface, align them with a yard stick, then sight down the row of case mouths to see if they are in a line, too. If not, you are bending rims or have off-square bolt face. Once the rim is bent or angled it will often no longer fit in a gauge even if the diameter is OK.

The maximum diameter of a .223 case head is 0.378" or 6.90 mm in diameter. The minimum is 0.368" or 6.65 mm. Both SAAMI and CIP have this same maximum specification. It is copied from the military specification, so all .223 and 5.56 brass should follow that value. If you have heads within that diameter that do not fit into a case gauge, slug or cast or use a pin gauge to make sure the case gauge itself is within spec and will allow that diameter to enter it. If not, the maker should correct it for you.


603Country,

New brass can fall anywhere inside that min-max range of 0.368"-0.378". If your Lapua brass does not, let the company know. More likely it will be the gauge that is off, and you could send it and a couple of sample cases to the maker for correction.
 
I spoke to the gentleman at the company that makes the CasePro100. Lead time is about 2-3 months. I placed my order and now I’m in waiting mode. It isn’t cheap, but it appears to be a well made product.

This hobby can be really expensive sometimes, but it’s so enjoyable.
 
If the cases fit in the chamber after resizing, you're done. Fitting in a gauge doesn't matter. All these high priced, assorted gauges cause more grief than they'll ever solve. If you use an FL or SB sizer die, you should be fine.
"...all my 223 is fried from full auto guns..." Exactly. snicker. However, rims can get damaged by any rifle.
 
I like mine,and like I said, it solves a lot of problems.
Mine is old enough it's purple instead of blue, and probably done (no exaggeration) 5 million rounds.
Last I spoke with him, he was getting new frames cast, even stronger and more capable.
Lead times are stupid long on small run production now that the economy has picked up a little...

New product line coming out for a customer, took nearly a year to get stainless steel investment castings made. It's either wait on an American company so it works, or go China and roll the dice on what you get...

----

As for measuring tools Mr. O'Heir,
No durable goods you own works CORRECTLY without accurate measurements, and that takes accurate measuring equipment.
This includes your firearms...

You remind me of the guy that gripes "No one makes a good 'Scope', he's owned half dozen and they are all JUNK!"
Turns out he was crushing the tubes in poorly made out of round rings using an automotive ratchet to tighten the screws, the reticle was canted about 12 degrees...
Tells me that an inch/pound torque wrench is for 'Fags' and his $12 rings are 'Just as Good' as anything more expensive...

I told him I couldn't help him, maybe he should try the Wal-Mart down the road...

*IF* you took an engine in to be rebuilt, would it be OK with you if pistons were installed without checking for bore clearance or piston ring gap?
How about just throwing the crank on out of box bearings without checking clearance?

How about the brake guy installing brakes that 'Almost' touch the rotors or drums?

How about a rifle chamber that was 0.100" too short/small that wouldn't chamber factory ammo?

You guys get the firearm to go 'Boom'... If that's the way you do it, that's fine with me (and the reason I don't do a lot of public ranges anymore or shoot anyone else's reloads)
Just don't argue against common sense!
 
I admit that I had to look up Dunning-Kruger, though it did tickle my memory. I have encountered those folks. Back in the late 90’s, my company HR had me (as Director) do personnel appraisals on all of my departmental folk. I had a couple of people doing very little of what they should have been doing. I saw that as a problem, but they didn’t. I gave the situation a lot of thought, and then worked up a detailed self-appraisal form and had them all fill it out prior to my sit-down with them. The results were very surprising. Here’s a rough outline of what I got from them:

- the majority of the department folk were pretty close on their ratings versus how i’d rate them.
- a small minority, all women, rated themselves too low. Modest.
- a small group rated themselves too high. Mix of men and women.
- one woman rated herself at the absolute top of every category, and she was by far the poorest performer in the entire department. Even to this day that still amazes me. She quit soon after. She knew I was on to her.

As for how that applies to this forum, I may agree or disagree with various folks from time to time, but I don’t see anyone that meets that D-K effect. In all my years in corporate America, only that one woman was like that.
 
Everyone is an 'Expert' on the internet...
No formal education of any kind on the subject, can't tell the difference between a measurement & 'Gauged', can't tell the difference between an absloute measurement & relative differential measurement,
Often times doesn't even do the process/function they are talking about, but more than willing to expound about how it doesn't matter...

Open any annealing thread... The dumbest, most scientifically rejected ideas just keep cropping up over & over...
Or on this thread, guys that don't have any idea how a roll forming die works, never used one (or even heard of one before) popping off about how it won't work, waste of time & money...

Every process has it's advantages, and it's limitations.
It takes an actual education, ON THE SUBJECT BEING DISCUSSED, to have a valid opinion.
That means actually using the equipment CORRECTLY, in person, to make an educated evaluation of that equipment or process.

It's like the idiot that claims a '3/4 RACE CAM' in an engine...
Camshafts being measured for Lift, Duration, Overlap, ect.
Is that 3/4" Lift? 3/4 Turn Duration, 3/4 Turn Overlap?...
Or did this idiot just knock the last 4 lobes off the shaft?!

ANYONE that argues against ACCURATE measurements, particularly when we are talking several automatic weapons & hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition just chaps my butt!
If you can afford SEVERAL automatic weapons, then a micrometer and standard to check it with is dust in the budget, not even noticed.

If you are reloading THOUSANDS of rounds of ammunition for those automatic weapons then a micrometer or gauge is change lost in the sofa compared to the ammo...
You DO NOT want to crank out a few thousand rounds and 'PRAY/HOPE' that your rounds will chamber/shoot without jamming or blowing up the firearm...

Because some random guy bends a brass that will fit in HIS SINGLE CHAMBER, on a volume he can chamber each & every brass before he loads it (not thousands at a time that have to fit several firearms), he *THINKS* he's an expert since he hasn't blown up himself (yet...),
BUT,
This same random guy is willing to lay down a blanket statment that NO ONE 'NEEDS' an accurate measuring instrument...

Dunning-Kruger, an absloute belief that they are 'Experts' with no idea of even the basic education involved, and always ready to spout off that 'Belief'.

First off, I never said this is the 'ONLY' way to rehab fired brass.
I said it worked, and continues to work for me & my customers.
If there is a faster/better way (or any way to restore rims/grooves, remove bloat in a single process), I've never seen or heard about it...

Like I said,
I use a roll die set to restore many of the problems that semi-auto & full auto rifles create.
It restores the lower brass back to a useable condition the vast majority of the time.
It restores most MODERN, US Made Brass back to acceptable tolerances (+/-), close enough to SAAMI that the brass is rarely rejected by match shooters.

It's as simple as that, but you had to spring for a $1,200 base machine to even try it, and that machine even was designed from the ground up, no other function, to restore bloated lower brass to a useable condition.

Without expending the $1,200+ outlay, you simply have no idea what the machine will & won't do.
Without an ACCURATE measuring device there is no way to tune the machine to do anything, or to figure out if the machine is producing brass that will work for your application.

'Accurate' doesn't mean a $5 cast plastic case length gauge that does 20 calibers,
'Accurate' doesn't mean a Harbor Freight caliper that is 0.002" off at 3/4" and 0.010" at 6", and has ZERO standards to check the measuring device to even know it's off...

I get it that a guy bending brass to make plinking loads doesn't want to buy, and learn how to use & maintain an accurate & reliable measuring tool, close enough is good enough for them...
Just don't try to sell it as the 'Correct' or 'Accurate' way to do things.
Don't argue against common sense!

The guy that does 100 rounds every 6 months simply can't even understand what it takes in quality control to crank brass/rounds out at 700 to 3,400 an HOUR, brass that MUST work in 2,000 different rifles of the same caliber...
And yet the internet allows the same voice to the guy in his basement with a hand press as it does to someone that produces finished brass from coiled flat brass stock that arrives by the ton!
 
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Well...I can’t argue against a thing you said. But you and I both know that the same old topics and arguments and truths, untruths, lack of knowledge and opinions will come up again and again. Nothing you can do about it. UncleNick and Mr Guffy must feel sometimes that they are talking into the wind. And you seem pretty upset or just plain frustrated. You obviously know what you’re talking about, and some folks are listening, some are not, and some have no idea what you are talking about.

Many years ago, when I was in the Marines, I was tasked with giving an instructional talk on explosives. Only problem was that the Major never was clear on what he wanted me to cover. So, being an engineer, I gave the talk from an engineering perspective on detonation velocities, gas phases, and such as that. I had slides and the whole bit. After the talk, the Major said that was an incredible amount of information and a great talk, but not one person in the room had any idea what I just said. Next time I did the talk, it was more on the order of “pull the pin and throw it” and be sure you don’t throw it before you pull the pin.

So...not everybody is going to ‘get it’.:)
 
If ANYONE has a way to restore rims, bloated lower cases, etc., Then I'm more than willing to hear it!
I do a LOT of auto fired brass in unsupported lower chambers, so ANY accurate information or ideas are good!

The case roller I use wasn't designed for rifle brass in the beginning, but it works well when the dies are 'Tight' & properly made.
The shorter (5.56mm) brass goes through the machine quite well, dies take a beating, but that is to be expected since you are doing 3x or 4x the amount of brass shaping they were originally intended to do.
Much to the credit of the designer, he OVER BUILT the base machine, so it actually works quite well with minimum of deflection.
When you are building a press frame, heavy metal is the way to go for longevity.

Short of serious CNC machines to bend these cases back into shape, this is the most efficient way I've found so far.
We are talking fired cases, so there is no manufacturer that has laid down ground work for us, we are left to our own devices...
 
Your Marines story is interesting...
We got the blasters textbooks, we had to know velocities, etc.
Energetics was the most 'Fun', but demanding...
I could have used some tutoring, I about lost my mind, I'm 'Math Handicapped' so it was by the skin of my teeth, but the field work was a TON of fun!
 
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