My old High School shop teacher left behind factory and reloaded ammunition from the 70's and 80's. I'm going to purchase .257 Roberts ammuntion from his son. I don't know how this ammo was stored, but I would think that the factory ammunition would be safe to shoot. I am planning on pulling the bullets from the reloads and dumping the powder, but am curious as to whether or not the primers would still be good. Any thoughts? Thanks
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How to handle 40-50 year old ammunition
- Thread starter AL45
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
What will you use it for? Unless for trophy game, shootum.
If you want to reload, the old reloads, just pull the bullets and use the original primers. You could put new powder in the cases but there is no reason to throw the primers away. They will be non corrosive given the time period. If the guy was a shop teacher, the reloads are probably fine.
The Verminator
Moderator
Old ammo has worked just fine for me.
Reloads, old or new, I will not gamble on.
With replacing the powder in yours you should be fine.
Reloads, old or new, I will not gamble on.
With replacing the powder in yours you should be fine.
Old ammo has also blown up some rifles. It's not very common, but it happens. Everything hinges on how it was stored and how far deterioration has advanced.
Powders sold for reloading, especially in the past, have often contained all or some portion that is surplus. Surplus powders are often old enough that deterioration begins sooner than it would for newly purchased bulk powders fresh from the powder plant. Norma says they guarantee ten year life for their powders. I've got a good number that are rather older than that and that are still fine, but I've had a couple deteriorate badly in that time. The British military puts a 20-year limit on stockpiling ammunition loaded with double-base powders, and a 45-year limit on single-base powders. The U.S. relies on testing, but 20 years is a commonly mentioned period.
The biggest risk is deterioration which breaks down deterrents faster than the nitrocelluose and nitroglycerin in the powder, and that causes the burn rate to speed up. The U.S. Navy studied this by aging M80 Ball cartridges artificially in high temperature and finding pressure had increased by something like 50%. IIRC, it was something like 140°F for 18 months. Unfortunately, someone who keeps their old ammo in an attic or garage in the summer months can accumulate that sort of deterioration.
I would not shoot reloads I wasn't present at the making of. Some old load data is quite hot by modern standards and can be unsafe in some gun models that don't match the model it was developed in.
So, pulling the bullets and applying fresh charges of powder makes good sense. If all the commercial loads are identical to each other and all the handloads are identical to each other, you can pull the bullets and check the powder condition and measure the average charge weight and recharge them at that same weight if the powder still looks and smells good and has no red dust or clumpy oiliness associated with its appearance. Try one with 10% less powder, just to make sure the burn rate is still reasonable. If you have a chronograph, that is a good check to be sure you don't get some unusually high velocity for the cartridge and bullet weight out of that 10% reduced charge.
Powders sold for reloading, especially in the past, have often contained all or some portion that is surplus. Surplus powders are often old enough that deterioration begins sooner than it would for newly purchased bulk powders fresh from the powder plant. Norma says they guarantee ten year life for their powders. I've got a good number that are rather older than that and that are still fine, but I've had a couple deteriorate badly in that time. The British military puts a 20-year limit on stockpiling ammunition loaded with double-base powders, and a 45-year limit on single-base powders. The U.S. relies on testing, but 20 years is a commonly mentioned period.
The biggest risk is deterioration which breaks down deterrents faster than the nitrocelluose and nitroglycerin in the powder, and that causes the burn rate to speed up. The U.S. Navy studied this by aging M80 Ball cartridges artificially in high temperature and finding pressure had increased by something like 50%. IIRC, it was something like 140°F for 18 months. Unfortunately, someone who keeps their old ammo in an attic or garage in the summer months can accumulate that sort of deterioration.
I would not shoot reloads I wasn't present at the making of. Some old load data is quite hot by modern standards and can be unsafe in some gun models that don't match the model it was developed in.
So, pulling the bullets and applying fresh charges of powder makes good sense. If all the commercial loads are identical to each other and all the handloads are identical to each other, you can pull the bullets and check the powder condition and measure the average charge weight and recharge them at that same weight if the powder still looks and smells good and has no red dust or clumpy oiliness associated with its appearance. Try one with 10% less powder, just to make sure the burn rate is still reasonable. If you have a chronograph, that is a good check to be sure you don't get some unusually high velocity for the cartridge and bullet weight out of that 10% reduced charge.
Shotgun Slim
New member
Unlcenick is dead on
Since you don't know the storage history of even the factory loads then it would be unwise at best to assume it's safe to use. Pull them all down and use the primed cases and the bullets to create ammo you are sure of.
Since you don't know the storage history of even the factory loads then it would be unwise at best to assume it's safe to use. Pull them all down and use the primed cases and the bullets to create ammo you are sure of.
I still have some rounds I loaded in the 80s, its been stored in the same conditions I store myself in. Inside the house, not in the attic or basement, in a relatively climate controlled condition. Last time I shot any of it, (admittedly some years ago) if worked exactly the way it did when I loaded it.
I have no questions or doubts about that ammunition, but then, I know the conditions it has been stored in.
I have no questions or doubts about that ammunition, but then, I know the conditions it has been stored in.
filthy phil
New member
I bought a bunch of buck from the guy that owns sturmgewehr.com
Stuff from the 70s
Still goes bang
Stuff from the 70s
Still goes bang
georgehwbush
New member
i have some western super-X ammo from the 70's in 38-40 win. can't tell any difference in that and the newer stuff from the 90's
it all goes bang. the 1871 winchester in 38-40 doesn't have a noticeable recoil, so i can't tell anything there, it's accurate. <shrugs/>
in 257 roberts or anything "high power" i might be a bit more hesitant to test it though.
it all goes bang. the 1871 winchester in 38-40 doesn't have a noticeable recoil, so i can't tell anything there, it's accurate. <shrugs/>
in 257 roberts or anything "high power" i might be a bit more hesitant to test it though.
A lot of it?
I MIGHT do a random sampling inspection esp. if it's a lot of ammo.
Dependent on the results of said inspection I would then make a decision. Should I see variance or suspect powder degradation? Time to go get a collet style bullet puller and get to work pulling them down. Replace the gas in the tank with new and reseat the bullets.
I MIGHT do a random sampling inspection esp. if it's a lot of ammo.
Dependent on the results of said inspection I would then make a decision. Should I see variance or suspect powder degradation? Time to go get a collet style bullet puller and get to work pulling them down. Replace the gas in the tank with new and reseat the bullets.
Time to go get a collet style bullet puller and get to work pulling them down.
Screw the collet, get the hammer! I use the Lyman orange hammer and it works great, and doesn't distort the bullets. The same cannot be said of my RCBS collet puller, it would often slip and will distort and ruin lead bullets, and its been sitting in its box for years since I got the hammer.
The oldest ammo I can remember shooting was back in the 70s when a friend got some GI .30-06 with an "18" headstamp (1918). Cases were a dark brown, but it all shot just fine (yes corrosive primed). It hit about 6" low at 100, compared to modern commercial ammo, though.
georgehwbush
New member
plastic tipped bullets can be damaged in a hammer. and if they are small light with factory crimp, it's almost impossible to pull them with a hammer. in my exp.
Small light bullets are more difficult to pull with a hammer type inertia puller, simply because they have less inertia.
If you cut a small piece from a foam earplug (or other soft material) and put it in the nose of the puller, so the bullet tip has something soft to land on when it comes free, damage is rare. I don't know about plastic tipped bullets, never pulled any of those, but soft lead tip rounds (including HPs) won't get damaged if you pad where they land inside the pullet.
If you cut a small piece from a foam earplug (or other soft material) and put it in the nose of the puller, so the bullet tip has something soft to land on when it comes free, damage is rare. I don't know about plastic tipped bullets, never pulled any of those, but soft lead tip rounds (including HPs) won't get damaged if you pad where they land inside the pullet.