How to fix my Colt Official Police .38?

Well

I definately plan to have this gun sent to Pittsburg Handguns after the older one is fixed in a month or two.

If this helps your evaluation of the gun a little more, I have fired it at the range since I got the gun (the gun has has the jamming problem since I got it about a year ago I only found out what was causing it about two months ago). The gun has had around 1000 rounds fired in it experiencing only occasional jamming from the depressed recoil plate.

It's the only defense gun I have that I can depend on in an acceptable (but not ideal) degree. (I have a 1911 A1 but I don't like carrying automatics for defense....and it's harder to conceal)
 
Wow! Quite a tutorial on the old Colt revolvers.

A couple of minor comments just on things I noticed. The little metal displacement on the edge of the bolt notch is not the cause of throwing by, it is the result.

Throwby can be caused by improper timing, but also is often the result of the cylinder's own momentum. A loaded cylinder picks up a lot of rotational momentum in rapid fire. So what can happen is that the bolt drops, the cylinder starts around moved by the hand (pawl), but the cylinder, being heavy, picks up a lot of momentum and tries to move ahead under its own inertia, out of contact with the hand. The cylinder notch then passes the bolt position before the bolt is released to rise and engage it. The result is throwby. Any hesitation on the trigger, of course, makes the situation worse. Another cause is some mechanical hesitation built into the gun, like a ratchet notch that is not smooth or a sticking place on the cylinder arbor that can cause the cylinder to jump ahead of the hand when the hesitation is past. If the bolt catches the edge of the notch just as it goes past, it raises a small piece of metal.

This does not happen in an S&W because the S&W cylinder stop (Colt calls it the bolt) comes up early, causing the drag line that is normal on a S&W revolver. Colt did not do this, partly to avoid the line, but did make the leade longer and increased tension on the bolt spring. As you found, the solution does not always work.

One thing that can sometimes help is to cut the top of the bolt at an angle so the high edge rides into the notch sooner. Not guaranteed to help, but it may.

The Colt system worked well for many years, though it was always cussed by gunsmiths. The need for very skilled (and highly paid) fitters was one reason Colt revolvers were always expensive and why Colt was continually on the edge of bankruptcy. When they finally saw the light and revamped the guns around 1970, the new design was never fully accepted by Colt fans, saying that it was a copy of the S&W design (which it was to some extent). So Colt fans didn't like the old design, but then didn't like the new one either. It was a lose/lose situation and I sort of felt sorry for Colt.

Jim
 
Well in this case

Throwing by didn't start until these markings on the edge of the notch appeared. At least it didn't seem to. Now that throwing by has started, it hasn't stopped even on slow and easy shots in some cases. (The gun is throwing off and on been throwing by from shoddy repair job to shoddy repair job....well, you've read the gun's life story from previous messages) The throwing by usually started after the cylinder would hang for a while (I guess that's what ultimately caused those notches....Until now, I was never told hanging was harmful just an irritating point that I would have to live with)
 
About the newer model (1961, so I'm told)

Regarding the newer OP made in the early 60s, what would you say could have caused the fractured recoil plate?

At first I assumed it would be .38+P being fired in the gun by the previous owner but since you and about a half a dozen other gunsmiths and shooters in here have told me about the durability of the OP in regards to even hotter loads such as the .38-44 I seriously doubt that now.

What could have caused the fracture?

Also,
I notice the trigger is a little tighter than my other revolver making speed shooting difficult. I wind up trying not to jerk the trigger back being abusive but in doing so I lessen the strength in my trigger pull somtimes causing energy in my squeeze to let off before the trigger is fully pulled back causing the trigger to in turn snap back forward against my finger.

I plan to send this gun off to Pittsburg as soon as I get the other one back (They tell me the cylinder is fine on it....so says a 40 year experienced gunsmith that works for them :o but I'm not so sure, I'm still trying to work that bad taste out of my mouth from Colt skeptic gunsmiths and their not so good workings on it) but what should I tell them to do about the trigger pull. Or would you even recommend my having them do anything to it?

Thanks,
Doug
 
The action could be full of dried up lube and dirt.

Likely the newer gun has a newer mainspring and these are usually stronger than old, well used guns.
Pittsburgh will insure the trigger pull is within factory specs, but you might mention it to them.

A cracked recoil bushing is NOT good.

Of the ways this might happen the most likely are someone shooting a +P+ or even HOTTER round in the gun.
In this case, the gun needs to be carefully checked for signs of over-pressure damage.

Pittsburgh will take care of this for you when you send it in.
 
I thought

But I thought the OP could handle .38-44 What could be hotter than that? That's even hotter than .38+P (.357 of course but those are too long to fit in a .38 special gun)
 
There are law enforcement-only Plus P Plus (+P+) .38 Special hot loads that are basically mini-Magnum level loads intended for use ONLY in .357 Magnum guns.

And then there's "Billy Bob's Special reloads" that will overstress a S&W N-frame .357 Magnum.
They of course will shoot them in a Detective Special or an Official Police.

People just insist on over-loading the .38, OR picking up the wrong can of powder.

On one of the forums is a really awful set of pictures of a Colt Anaconda with an scope sight that's just blown to bits.

The cylinder was blown in half, the frame is BADLY distorted and bulged.

The owner apparently did pick up the wrong can of powder.

Over the years I've seen a little bit of everything, and what I've come to expect is that people will NOT be careful, and sensible.

If they have a .38 they'll try to turn it into a HOT .357 Magnum.

If they're reloading, it's way to much to expect them to pay attention, and not dump a case full of Bullseye.

In EVERY case, "It's the guns fault, it shouldn't have done that".
 
A perfect example of why

A perfect example of why I would NEVER reload my own ammunition cartridges. A lot of people like to clean up at the range line and sweep up the discarded empty catridges. I wouldn't trust myself in reloading those things. I depend only on what I can buy in the store in a box from someone who knows what the heck they are doing.

I would be very interested in knowing how I could get my hands on a box of .38-44s. Probably never use them at the range much but, being armor piercing, they would make a handy defense round. :cool:
 
Sorry, most 38-44's were NOT armor piercing.
Most of it was loaded with lead bullets.

I'm not sure when most companies stopped making the 38-44, but by now the ammo will be aging.
I'm not sure I'd want to trust most of it.

Reloading your own ammo is entirely safe, as long as you keep your mind on "business".

Where people get into trouble is in just flat not paying attention.

Reloading is MUCH safer than driving a car or operating a power saw.
It's when you you start getting careless is when you make mistakes.

In many thousands of miles and who knows how many thousands of rounds reloaded, I've never had a car accident, and never had a problem with a reload.
 
Sorry, most 38-44's were NOT armor piercing.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....I've heard that there are parties out there that do manufacture .38-44 in FMJ but that they cost a pretty penny.

Also, I thought even the old lead round nose types were considered armor piercing in that their purpose was to penetrate steel in cars (same purpose in why they made the .357 back in 1935)

Doug
 
Gun Fixed

I just called Pittsburg Handgun and they told me that my gun (the 1944 OP)was ready :cool: fixed and adjusted to factory specifications :) and told me if I take care and don't abuse it that it should last me another 50 years ;)

I look forward to getting it the mail this weekend and after what I've been told about the sturdiness of the OP, I feel like buying a fresh box of .38+P rounds and taking them down to the range with it Saturday.

Gonna send them my 1961 OP next to see about fixing it. :)

BTW, does anyone think that a S&W Model 10 from the 1970s and 80s would be able to handle .38+P?

Thank you to D Fariswheel and Jim Keenan for all the help and tips given on this subject

Doug
 
I E mailed S&W about +P rounds and they told me their official position is that in theory any .38+P is can be handled by any K frame revolver made after 1956 but the representative told me that they wouldn't feed a steady diet in some of the older guns.

I got my OP from 1944 back from Pittsburg this weekend. Fired it yesterday and it worked beautifully :o

NO problems at all at the range and very accurate now too now that it's not hanging or dragging or anything. I officially made it my primary defense gun over my other OP and Springfield 1911. (the other OP is going out on UPS to Pittsburg to have it's problems addressed next week)

Doug
 
Gotum

I just got the second OP back this past weekend (1961 version). I took it to the range and put 50 rounds .38 special and about 20 rounds .38+P and it works beautifully. Apparently, it was not that the recoil plate was fractured but that someone had filed it down to the point where it was sinking into the gun. Pittsburg looked it over and found no signs of stress on the frame.

I now have both guns back and they make great shooters and great CHL pieces. Their actions feel as smooth as Pythons (can't get better than that) I've fired .38+P in both guns (including the 1944) and half expected them to blow up or fall apart but quickly got used to it after about 6 rounds. THe guns hold up great under .38+P.

Thank you for all information you provided. At some point I need to get the Handgun guide you recommended. (However Pittsburg strongly suggested that I NOT dissassemble the gun or even take the panal off the side for any reason, that any tampering with the inside of the gun from just removing and cleaning parts could alter the gun's inner workings. They suggested I leave it alone and keep it clean on the outside dropping oil in the inside from time to time and it will last me another 50 years. I hope they do last that long. By then they will make great conversation pieces for any grandchildren I have. ;)
 
It wasn't uncommon to find a Colt revolver that had been issued to a cop in the police academy, carried during a 30 year career in all weather, and find it still in 100% internal shape.

That's one advantage the revolver STILL has.....load it, put it in a desk drawer and leave it untouched for 50 years.

When you take it out and pull the trigger, it'll fire just FINE.

You can remove the side plate on your revolvers and clean them out every now and then, BUT ONLY if you feel competent to do so, and have the RIGHT gunsmith's screwdrivers.

Pittsburgh goes on the assumption that you don't known anything about revolvers in general, and Colt's in particular.

Since they and I have seen MANY cases of people who didn't know about Colt's, this make excellent sense, and good advice.

Your refurbished Colt's likely won't last JUST another 50 years.
With any care at all, your GREAT grandkids will be giving them to THEIR kids.
 
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