How to defend your home defense

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I suggest that having your gun on is not safe from capture by someone else. It happens all the time. Most cops that die from gunshot are shot by their own gun.
You should keep all guns in a safe with the ammunition locked in a different safe at least 30 feet away.

OK, I have heard that BS and none of my guns are in a safe. When children visit we keep an eye on them and their parents keep an eye on them. If you can't be mature enough to be aware of what is going on around you then you should have your guns in a safe.
 
ShootistPRS said:
...If you can't be mature enough to be aware of what is going on around you then you should have your guns in a safe.
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So every time a kid has found an unsecured gun and injured himself or someone else it was the immaturity of the gun owner failing to be aware of everything that was going on in the house?

It's also possible that the "immaturity" of the gun owner is reflected not by his inattention, but rather by his refusal to make the effort to secure the gun from unauthorized access.
 
Frank,
I raised 4 of my own and I was engaged with them when I was home. When the grand kids came over I was engaged with them. When my great grand kids are over I engage with them. We do things together. You have to actively ignore a child for him/her to get a gun and injure them selves or others.
When my kids showed interest in the guns around the house we talked about it, I showed then how to clear the gun before doing anything else. When they realize that its just a tool like any other and you have to clear it before you can handle it the fascination wears off and they lose interest until they are big enough to fire it. Then we go to the range and they learn to load the guns and how to aim and trigger control and all the stuff that goes into shooting small groups. In short, if a child it brought up learning how guns are properly handled on their time scale there is no fascination in them. The problem is that some parents ignore their children. They ignore the child's education and recreation. It's inconvenient to get involved with their children. I was involved with my kids . I'm involved with my great grandkids. We do things together. There is no TV or X-box so we spend time making things or working in my shop. They like working in the garden a little and learning how to prepare a meal. If more people were parents to their children -
Let me put it this way; in four generations we have not had any negligent discharges or gun accidents. Maybe my family is just lucky or maybe education is better than ignorance. Maybe being the biggest part of your growing child's life is better than letting tv and game-boy be the influence that you should be.
 
ShootistPRS said:
....I raised 4 of my own and I was engaged with them when I was home. When the grand kids came over I was engaged with them. When my great grand kids are over I engage with them. We do things together.....
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Good for you. But I stand by my comments.

One's personal, unique experience is not a sound basis for a categorical, general statement such as you made. And it is irresponsible to suggest that because of your good fortune only someone who is immature needs to bother securing his guns from unauthorized access.
 
I agree that there are a lot of positives with being in your kids' lives and sharing experiences with them. I agree completely that kids should be educated about guns. I disagree with the implication that complete supervision of children 24/7 is possible. I am sure you slept, and I rather imagine that you did things like mow the yard and clean out gutters, and you very likely took a shower at least occasionally. I know I did, and my guns were under lock and key at those times, even though my kids understood gun safety.
 
Personally I think educating kids has a bigger impact than locks and keys.

Im not saying you shouldn't lock up excess guns but at least 1 needs be out and ready.

And Im not a big fan of those quick access safes.. on the other hand I have no children so im sure my POV will naturally be different then those with many small children.. but again I think being honest and educating them is the best route and costs nothing.

who puts locks on the stove? teach your children about fire.
 
Appropriate storage and education are not mutually exclusive and we need to make sure these conversations do not treat them as such.
 
There are lots of parents who spend a great deal of energy to "child proof" their homes when it is so much better and easier to "house break" your children.
If you lock the guns up it may or may not keep them from the kids (I learned how to pick locks very young). What happens when they go over to their friends homes or see a gun on the street? If they are educated they know what to do and instinctively do it. If they are uneducated there is more likely to be a terrible accident.
Even if you lock the guns up, educate your kids in the proper handling of them. If they show an interest then take the time to share your knowledge with them.
 
ShootistPRS said:
There are lots of parents who spend a great deal of energy to "child proof" their homes when it is so much better and easier to "house break" your children.....
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No one has said that education isn't important. But so is responsible storage of one's guns. Children (and adults) could be in your home who don't have the benefit of your kid's education or are as responsible as they are. Just as your children may be in other peoples' homes.
 
who puts locks on the stove? teach your children about fire.
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I have a recent experience with this. Visiting my son last weekend and my wife was cooking lunch. His oldest daughter (4 years old) wanted to be helpful. She kept reaching toward a pot on the stove like she was going to touch it. My wife told her at least three times not to touch it that it was hot and will burn you.

Guess what she did? She got a little ouchie. Now what if that was a gun?

Personally, my experience is that kids have to be told over and over and over to understand and sometimes they just need to feel the pain to learn. Guns are very good and what they are meant to do so the over and over method is not the best choice, at least for me. ;)
 
FAS1 said:
.....Personally, my experience is that kids have to be told over and over and over to understand and sometimes they just need to feel the pain to learn...
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What does that really mean in the context of this discussion? So to teach a child firearms safety one should let him shoot himself or someone else's?
 
What does that really mean in the context of this discussion?
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It means they don't always learn from simply being told.
There's no need to look for hidden meanings all the time, and there's no need to always be argumentative about everything.
 
Frank Ettin said:
What does that really mean in the context of this discussion? So to teach a child firearms safety one should let him shoot himself or someone else's?
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Frank,

Maybe you can read all of joe's post and understand that I was saying toddlers don't always listen and that can be deadly with a gun vs just a little burn from a stove. Education alone might not work as well as you would like and securing your gun is just a good idea while educating kids.
 
FAS1 I agree education is just part especially at a young age.
But it seems the conversation was mostly about physical security, which is not reliable especially as they get older or if you have a habit of leaving keys or codes in a known place.

And generally at least 1 gun is going to be left out for bump in the night.
Some people use the quick access safes and they're ok but Im not a big fan of them for bump in the night.

At no time did I mean to convey that one should choose one or the other only that I believe education is more important because that's security thats in the kid not a piece of metal.. it's not situational, and it cost nothing.

Personally I think educating kids has a bigger impact than locks and keys.

Im not saying you shouldn't lock up excess guns but at least 1 needs be out and ready.
Click to expand...

My father told us not to touch his guns and he just left them on racks and in the closet and we never did.. so every kids different, but not every kid wants to touch the fire.

But again I have no kids so my POV my differ.
 
FAS1 said:
Maybe you can read all of joe's post and understand that I was saying toddlers don't always listen and that can be deadly with a gun vs just a little burn from a stove. Education alone might not work as well as you would like and securing your gun is just a good idea while educating kids.
Click to expand...

I guess my point is that the gun-stove analogy isn't very apt. A slight burn from a stove can be a learning tool. But I hope we have ways of effectively teaching kids to be safe with guns without them having to get shot to get the message.

But I do understand and agree that often children, especially younger children, will not learn from just being told. And that probably translates to some combination of education and access control -- with access control perhaps diminishing as the child gets older and demonstrates an increasingly robust understanding of gun safety.
 
I'm much more concerned about valuables when I am away but all of my guns are locked away as I have 3 kids under the age of 6. I have one large safe for my safe guns and my home defense gun is in a padlocked drawer and then in a safe in the drawer - so a double lock just in case the kids try to break in. At night I take the padlock off and open the drawer safe then lock it back up in the morning. Its impossible for me to forget to lock it first thing in the morn because I charge my phone in the drawer and put it in that safe at night so when I wake up in the morning I have to go in the drawer to get my phone and I close it all up. My CCW gun is always on me or in my drawer at night with my home defense gun. If someone broke in at night I have an alarm, my wife would be calling police while I hand her a gun, and I would go out to check out the sound and on the kids with my home defense gun.

As far as the discussion about kids, they are all different. They cannot be trusted. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. You can raise two kids exactly the same, one will never touch the guns based on your discipline and the other might. Most studies on this show that kids will take them and play with them if they get the chance. Just keep them locked up. Kids are not to be trusted with guns, even if they are the type that listens and good kids. I have taught mine about guns, shown them guns, told them they can see them whenever they want, etc. BUT I would never trust them near one when I wasn't supervising.
 
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I'm​ quite sure somewhere on this forum, and others, I have read of "the doctrine of competing harms".

There are safes, there are children, there are unloaded guns, there are loaded guns, there are threats, there are perceived threats.

There's Walter Mitty, and there's Navy SEALs coming back from Afghanistan, honourably discharged, that hear bumps in the night.

Exercise your best judgement, and​ be prepared to stand against scrutinization.... from your peers....or your conscience.

I'm ready.
 
A few things you can do if you don't have a safe,
or safe space for it all.
1.- Lock your guns with trigger, or gun locks.
2.-Separate your gear, don't place the gun, in the box, with the mags,
next to matching ammo. A gun missing a bolt, action, or slide won't be as attractive to a thief- he won't be able to sell it quick.
3.- Lock it up, anyway, in a filing cabinet, desk, cabinet, trunk,etc.
4.-Hide your gear, bear in mind, a thief is probably under a time
pressure, or stress, the more stuff he has to search for, the
more time it takes.
5.-Don't keep it all in one room, make it hard for the BG to get it all.
Consider storing parts of things you don't constantly use at another place.
6.-Loose lips sink ships. The less people know about your stuff, the
better.
 
Thank you all for your contributions. I was unaware that they made quick access, long gun safes, though I suppose I should have because it makes sense.

As far as the rest of the discussion goes, that wasn't the original intent of the post, but I think it was extremely related and very helpful. So thank you for your input especially Joe, Shootist, and Frank. Not that anyone else didn't have good contributions, but if you are the kind to skim through forums, at least read those.

As for the outcome, I will be looking into a long gun, quick access safe for my HD shotgun. My EDC will stay on me until bedtime at which point it'll probably go into a drawer as if something goes bump in the night, my SG will be my primary go to.
 
I'm with Joesixpack. My gun is on my belt or on the headboard. I don't have a safe, I really like to look at my guns in a gun cabinet. But time's when I'm away from home more than just a few hour's I think I'd really be more comfortable with a safe to put them in. I have a brother that only has a few rifles and shotgun's but he's keeps them in a closet. You go into that closet and you'd never spot them. He built a cabinet on one end and it simply looks like the wall! If I had the ambition to clean out my closet, think I'd do the same thing. Now I have one older brother that went out and bought the most expensive safe he could find. Bolted it to the floor in the garage and he got broke into and the safe was opened somehow and all his gun's were gone. So much for the safe. My ex got herself one and has a terrible time figuring out how to open it!

BTW, I never hid guns from kids or made them off limits, you want the kid to start looking, make it off limits or hide it! I taught my kids to ask if they wanted to see the guns and they could pick them up then so long as I was with them. Visitor's don't go into the bedroom part of my house, adult or lid, period!
 
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