How much more "power" does a 209 primer have over a magnum pistol or rifle primer

M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
was reading a wax bullet thread on another single action forum, & followed a link to a cowboy fast draw site... saw they had special 45 Colt cases that had a loose fit for 209 primers, for powderless wax bullet loads...

got me thinking, if a 209 Primer would ever really serve a purpose in powder loading ( maybe in large rifle calibers ??? )

& just how much more "power" the 209 has in comparison to a magnum pistol or rifle primer when used in the wax bullet cartridge???

got a buddy that shoots wax bullets ( now rubber ) in his farm shed, & we've played around a bit between magnum & regular primers, & different sized flash holes... but this is the 1st I've seen with 209 primers...

BTW... those cases that take the 209 primers have an oversized primer hole, & the primers just fall out... so "those" wouldn't be practical to use on any "regular" cartridge loads...
 
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Be willing to bet that the manufacturer would have an answer if they are willing to talk to you.
If you pursue this, how about a follow up post with the information?

Gary
 
You could do a test with a couple of cases & a long wooden dowel. Similar to the "firing a pencil with the hammer spring" test revolver shooters use.
 
Shotgun has much lower chamber pressure than rifle, and even some pistols. It is most certainly something I don't want to try.

-TL
 
I was under the impression he was thinking of reduced wax bullet loads, not high pressure rifle loads?
The point being a bigger wax bullet load than with a regular primer?

Shotshell primer in a high pressure rifle load would be a very bad idea.
 
As I read it the OP does not intend to shoot anything in or out of a rifle .
Him and his bud are shooting wax bullets out of a Colt 45 handgun a using only a primer no powder and looking for a little more power . The 209 may or may not help ?
 
Just to clarify... the fast draw crowd uses only wax bullets, & uses both 209 primers with no powder, for practice rounds, & regular primers with a pinch of black powder ( for a puff of smoke ) for competitions... the fact that they make special 45 long Colt cases for use with 209 primers leads me to believe there must be some advantage... my own experience, seems like we've been getting close to the same velocity by just drilling the flash hole out to close to the primer pocket size, leaving just a shoulder to keep the primer from pushing through...

the question is purely academic... ( if it were more powerful... could it have any uses in normal cartridge loading... larger rifle came to mind, if it's more powerful )

BTW... many of the modern black powder rifles use 209 primers to ignite large charges of black powder( my buddy has one, that he loads 3 pellets... are they equal to 50 grains each??? & a 209 primer to ignite )... so I'm thinking they could likely handle the pressures as well as the tiny, thin, brass cups of a regular primer, provided a cartridge case was modified to accept a 209 primer
 
Kinda reminds me of that old Southern saying........................

"Hey Ya'll! Watch this!"

or

"Here! Hold my beer ........"

You can rest assured that if the 209 primer had a viable use in cartridge reloading outside of shotgun the industry would have picked up on it quickly.
 
You can rest assured that if the 209 primer had a viable use in cartridge reloading outside of shotgun the industry would have picked up on it quickly.
Click to expand...

Except that there is no industry loading for wax quick-draw rounds. That is stricktly a do-it-yourself kind of thing.
 
Go to your bachelor friend's house with the various primers that you want to test. Put a skillet on the stove burner, and place a test primer anvil up on the skillet. Place a soup can over the primer and turn the burner on high.

After exploding various primers in this "controlled" environment, you will have a fair understanding of the difference in power of the various ones.

OK, let the flaming begin.:p jd
 
may need to change out the soup cans for each test... or I may find out the exploding soup can has more energy than any of the primers...

:o

... or were you thinking about inverting empty cans over the top, & eating the soup 1st ;)
 
...
or were you thinking about inverting empty cans over the top, & eating the soup 1st
Click to expand...

BINGO!! I apologize for not being clear on that. When "scientific studies" like this are being preformed, proper methodology is everything. jd
 
Need to stop thinking about primers in terms of "power". A magnum primer is not "more powerful" than a standard primer. Primers are tailored to burn at a certain temperature and speed for their application.

Rifle and magnum primers burn slower and hotter for hard to ignite, slow burning powders in larger quantities.

Standard pistol primers are made to ignite faster skoleless powders in low volumes.

Shotgun primers are made to ignight fast burning powders in large quantities. They work well for BP rifles.

Primers aren't normally made or developed to be propellants, but if they are, I would imagine the primer with the largest volume, that burns very quickly would give you the greatest propulsion, so the 209 would probably get best results. I'm sure it's also at a pretty low velocity that wax bullets get too fast to work properly or start melting.

I handload .25acp where the primer probably propels as much as the tiny powder charge.

Speer used to sell plastic cases and plastic bullets that you loaded with primers.
 
another 25 ACP guy... welcome to the discussion...

actually I think there are more primers propelling stuff than people think about at 1st thought... I shoot a lot of Colibri & super Colibri 22 ammo in my antique rimfires... those have no powder & just rely on primer compound... they make rubber bullets & actually you can buy cast wax bullets through the fast draw association...

the speeds I saw from the videos I watched on their site was 600 ft / sec on the 209 primers, & 800 ft / sec on the regular primers with a pinch of black powder loads... bullets were listed as 17 grains of wax

but of course propelling a "normal" bullet out of the case, before the powder ignites is counterproductive to "normal" cartridges, so I'm sure the primer manufacturers are after heat & fire, with minimum expansion of gasses
 
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