How much is too much? (with a twist)
- Thread starter daferg2
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As long as your business is taken care of (wife, kids, bills) there is no issue of morality in owning inanimate objects. You 'may' choose to do something immoral with them but that is another matter entirely. Don't overthink it and DO NOT let the opinions of strangers dictate how you live your life. It's too short, do what makes you happy.
chris in va
New member
My friend's daughter and BF came over one day for a visit. He's a fairly fresh criminal justice graduate and I wanted to take him to the range as he had never fired a handgun before.
I took my very meagre rifle collection out of the StackOn cabinet and laid it on the floor...Mosin, CZ carbine, HiPoint, Saiga conversion and Mossy 500.
Soon as he came in the room, he exclaimed "Oh wow, you have a **** arsenal man! Are you allowed to have that many guns?"
There's a lot I could have said, but held my tongue and educated him to the reality of things.
He had a great time at the range too.
But anyway, to answer your question...firearms ownership/collecting comes with a great responsibility. Keep to the straight and narrow, don't do anything to draw attention to yourself or get in trouble. You could wind up with a front page ad looking like this...
I took my very meagre rifle collection out of the StackOn cabinet and laid it on the floor...Mosin, CZ carbine, HiPoint, Saiga conversion and Mossy 500.
Soon as he came in the room, he exclaimed "Oh wow, you have a **** arsenal man! Are you allowed to have that many guns?"
There's a lot I could have said, but held my tongue and educated him to the reality of things.
He had a great time at the range too.But anyway, to answer your question...firearms ownership/collecting comes with a great responsibility. Keep to the straight and narrow, don't do anything to draw attention to yourself or get in trouble. You could wind up with a front page ad looking like this...
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I always enjoy it when the press shows film footage of a criminal arrest and search warrant where 5 or 6 guns and 2 to 3 hundred rounds of ammo are displayed and they refer to the ARSENAL held by the suspect. I've already told people 2 or 3 hundred rounds is what I carry as spare ammo in my car.
My shooting friends and I laugh about what the press would say if they took a tour of our houses like one of those "Cribs" tv episodes.
Guns may not be the best investment but they're certainly not the worst as long as you buy quality. I can't think of a single gun that I bought 5 years ago that's worth less money now than I paid for it. Does anyone ever ask an art collector why they have more than one painting?
My shooting friends and I laugh about what the press would say if they took a tour of our houses like one of those "Cribs" tv episodes.
Guns may not be the best investment but they're certainly not the worst as long as you buy quality. I can't think of a single gun that I bought 5 years ago that's worth less money now than I paid for it. Does anyone ever ask an art collector why they have more than one painting?
Daferg2,
Yup, I get it. One reason I try never to associate with people who are into the whole "gangsta" thing and/or drugs is to avoid some concatenation of circumstances where police kick down my door.
I've often wondered if, in one or two cases somewhere, police raided a gun owner's house and "found" half a kilio of coke, meth or pot so they could claim he was "involved" in dealing drugs. I can think of few ways to cut someone off from supportive friends & coworkers than by publicly decrying the person as a drug dealer. But, nahhh...that'd never happen here, right?
If the police describe you as a "right wing extremist" or a "heavily armed drug dealer" most reporters will simply regurgitate that without thinking and unwittingly help them do it.
Yup, I get it. One reason I try never to associate with people who are into the whole "gangsta" thing and/or drugs is to avoid some concatenation of circumstances where police kick down my door.
I've often wondered if, in one or two cases somewhere, police raided a gun owner's house and "found" half a kilio of coke, meth or pot so they could claim he was "involved" in dealing drugs. I can think of few ways to cut someone off from supportive friends & coworkers than by publicly decrying the person as a drug dealer. But, nahhh...that'd never happen here, right?
If the police describe you as a "right wing extremist" or a "heavily armed drug dealer" most reporters will simply regurgitate that without thinking and unwittingly help them do it.
Bill, I think you make a valid and scary point here. especially if you have relatives, friends, or co-workers that are involved in illegal activities. It's not so far fetched to get caught up in someone else's mess and find your name, face, and pictures of your guns sprawled accross your bed on the evening news. Besides, I think it's also very easy to go from being a collector to being a percieved threat to the police, your local community, and society in general just based on the number of weapons you have in your own home and maybe knowing a blabber-mouth that's telling others about it.
The original question still applies. How many is too much? At what point do others consider you a threat? It's not that I give a rat's patute what others think of me and my hobby, but under the right circumstances, mixed with the wrong distorted-thinking people, you could find yourself in trouble or at best, under a great deal of suspicion and having to defend your position.
This is probably much ado about nothing, but having a large collection is starting to make me nervous when I probably shouldn't be. I can't be the only one who has wondered about such nonsense.
The only way I see it becoming a moral issue is if you are buying additional guns for your personal enjoyment/collection and as a result not being able to attend to your responsibilities in regards to those you are responsible for - like family. But this moral issue would be the same with a stamp collector (or any other enthusiast of anything that costs money).
But I do believe this is an issue to consider. Gun enthusiasts, and I am one, can get tunnel vision and really focus on the next purchase and go to great lengths to justify it regardless of cost (I am speaking from very personal experience). I try to force myself to sit back and consider other obligations before I shell out significant money. And I have a personal pact with myself that I will always pay cash and never charge a purchase thinking that I can pay for it down the road.
But I do believe this is an issue to consider. Gun enthusiasts, and I am one, can get tunnel vision and really focus on the next purchase and go to great lengths to justify it regardless of cost (I am speaking from very personal experience). I try to force myself to sit back and consider other obligations before I shell out significant money. And I have a personal pact with myself that I will always pay cash and never charge a purchase thinking that I can pay for it down the road.
I do fear that my collection could become a liability in the (unlikely) event I am required to use deadly force for personal defense. I could see it clouding a prosecutors perspectve. On the civil side, I have no doubt that the plaintiffs would leverage my collection to the greatest extent possible.
My collection is pretty small (3 rifles and 9 handguns) and doesn't include any AR's. The only black gun I own is a carbon steel 9mm colt 1911. Yet, I do have concerns about how it is perceived, especially at a time where managing peceptions is at its most critical.
My collection is pretty small (3 rifles and 9 handguns) and doesn't include any AR's. The only black gun I own is a carbon steel 9mm colt 1911. Yet, I do have concerns about how it is perceived, especially at a time where managing peceptions is at its most critical.
Unless someone is a blabber mouth, I really don't see how this is possible. Example: Thug breaks into your home. You shoot him. He dies. You legally own 300 guns, all kept in 3 undisclosed, hidden from view gun safes.
They pull the dead body out. You tell the cops what happened. You refuse to answer questions about anything that doesn't have to do with the Thug breaking into your home.
If Cops start randomly searching your house without a warrant, object to it. If they continue and find a safe, don't open it. Make them get a warrant. Even if they got a warrant, which wouldn't be that easy since its not relevant to the break in and shooting, and whatever was found would likely be excluded from any trial.
Remember, there is no database of firearms you own. Keep your mouth shut, your doors closed and your safe(s) locked and out of sight.
As Skans says ; Here's the deal:
If a cop enters your home and finds 200 guns, all of varying kinds and varieties, you're a collector.
If a cop enters your home and finds 200 consecutively numbered AK-47's from the same manufacturer, you will have some explaining to do.
I like this reply
If a cop enters your home and finds 200 guns, all of varying kinds and varieties, you're a collector.
If a cop enters your home and finds 200 consecutively numbered AK-47's from the same manufacturer, you will have some explaining to do.
I like this reply
Even if you don't have friends doing illegal things... just a friend who stops by with one of their friends who is into illegal crap that you don't know about. If that illegal stuff is significant and the cops followed him to your place, well, you may see a search warrant first hand.daferg2 said:
Depending on what state you live in, be sure you know your state laws regarding self-defense, especially in the home. A good shooting is a good shooting, regardless of how many guns you have. Any DA will have an uphill fight to indict/try you if your front door is in splinters, the deceased had a 6" or bigger knife and you were inside your locked home.win-lose said:
In any civil trial, attempts to portray you as some kind of "nut", "fetishist" or "rambo" type for owning lots of guns can be fended off by a good defense attorney. Especially when he asks jurors to think about any items they may collect and how the plaintiff's lawyer might try to "spin" that, while giving examples.
If a prosecutor cannot make his case well enough without introducing the irrelevant fact that you own more than just the gun used to shoot an intruder, his case is very weak. What's more, your attorney will claim it's prejudicial (irrelevant and intended to sway the jury against you).
Just remember how many cars Jay Leno has. I just want a gun collection about the size of Bill Ruger's. Would you wife be happier if you were collecting beer cans?
Side story. My wife is a realtor. When some people were showing her their house to list for sale, the wife stopped before entering one room and asked my wife if she had ever seen anything like this. My wife looked in and said, "Sure, it's a reloading room. We have one in our house." She got the listing and later sold the couple another house. My wife said that she never thought that she'd make a sale because she knew what a reloading room is.
Side story. My wife is a realtor. When some people were showing her their house to list for sale, the wife stopped before entering one room and asked my wife if she had ever seen anything like this. My wife looked in and said, "Sure, it's a reloading room. We have one in our house." She got the listing and later sold the couple another house. My wife said that she never thought that she'd make a sale because she knew what a reloading room is.
In a true home defense situation, where you shoot the intruder who broke into your home, (not someone who was invited, not your friend, not your wife, etc.), exactly how are the cops going to know how many guns you own if they are locked up and put away?
There is only one database that has every single gun you own registered in it and the only way that a prosecutor, DA, or police officer will have access to it is if the mouth it's connected to has a defective off switch.
BillCA, The time, effort, expense and emotional impacts of having to manage down the perceptions can easily turn into a substantial burden.
The likelihood of a forced discovery, in my estimation is quite high.
So while I may prevail in both criminal and civil contexts, I could very well lose huge having gone through a process burdened by my collection.
BTW, I live in MA, which is not exactly a pro 2A state.
There's certainly no legal or moral limit to the number of guns you can or should own; the limit for most of us is probably more financial than anything else ... I got a kick out of an earlier poster comparing gun collecting with stamp collecting ...
I don't think you'd see a newspaper story starting with, "Police say a man whose home burned to the ground on Tuesday had dozens of postage stamps locked in a heavy iron safe in the garage, along with thousands of unused postcards and envelopes and other stamp-collecting paraphernalia."
Guns will always be demonized in the press, even when the owner lives an exemplary life and dies in his sleep.
I don't think you'd see a newspaper story starting with, "Police say a man whose home burned to the ground on Tuesday had dozens of postage stamps locked in a heavy iron safe in the garage, along with thousands of unused postcards and envelopes and other stamp-collecting paraphernalia."
Guns will always be demonized in the press, even when the owner lives an exemplary life and dies in his sleep.