how long do you wet tumble.
- Thread starter Shadow9mm
- Start date
Here’s what I use to wet tumble.
I use one pod cascade dish washer detergent and about two table spoons lemme shine along with some green scotch brite scouring pads I cut up in 2x3” with about 2-3 gallons Hot water. The results are very nice. The brass is not super shiny but rather a Matt finish. Regardless it’s clean inside and out. I really don’t like using the SS pins because they are a pain to separate out. Typically have to wait until the casings are dry for separation Fass and SS to be successful. I built my own tumbler and use a 5 gallon sports water jug with a screw lid. Happy to send pics if anyone is interested in building their own.
I use one pod cascade dish washer detergent and about two table spoons lemme shine along with some green scotch brite scouring pads I cut up in 2x3” with about 2-3 gallons Hot water. The results are very nice. The brass is not super shiny but rather a Matt finish. Regardless it’s clean inside and out. I really don’t like using the SS pins because they are a pain to separate out. Typically have to wait until the casings are dry for separation Fass and SS to be successful. I built my own tumbler and use a 5 gallon sports water jug with a screw lid. Happy to send pics if anyone is interested in building their own.
Lemi-shine is for cleaning and it does not convert the lead. Using too much, and a high temp will dezincify the brass, which is dangerous. To keep from tarnishing, it is the good rinse afterwards.
I don't do a lot of wet tumbling, but I don't use pins. Woolite black and a little lemi-shine cases nice and pretty in about an hour.
I don't worry about sunlight. Humidity isn't high in Winter here. I just leave them out and wait. I forget about them for several days or a week, as I have other brass to load and shoot in the meantime. They always wind up dry in the end.
MarkCO,
Lemishine's main ingredient is a form of citric acid and citric acid is a chelating agent. Chelators, in effect, sequester heavy metals by binding them into a molecule that makes them water-soluble and that doesn't break apart easily, so it has much less reactivity than the metal does, thereby nullifying much of its toxicity. EDTA is much more efficient, but citric acid works well on lead in water-soluble compounds. Treatment with citric acid tends to passivate the surface of brass and make it less reactive with the environment by scavenging some of the surface zinc that can start white oxide blooms. It sounds bad but is commonly used in the brass casting industry to treat brass objects that are to be stored for long periods.
MarkCO,
Lemishine's main ingredient is a form of citric acid and citric acid is a chelating agent. Chelators, in effect, sequester heavy metals by binding them into a molecule that makes them water-soluble and that doesn't break apart easily, so it has much less reactivity than the metal does, thereby nullifying much of its toxicity. EDTA is much more efficient, but citric acid works well on lead in water-soluble compounds. Treatment with citric acid tends to passivate the surface of brass and make it less reactive with the environment by scavenging some of the surface zinc that can start white oxide blooms. It sounds bad but is commonly used in the brass casting industry to treat brass objects that are to be stored for long periods.
I know that Unclenick, but that is not why it is used for cleaning brass by reloaders. Also, it does not work effectively when used for wet tumbling brass.
And...too much citric acid (in a concentration high enough to bind the lead) absolutely will dezincify brass making a very dangerous condition. The slight brown to pink coloration is a sign it has progressed too far.
And...too much citric acid (in a concentration high enough to bind the lead) absolutely will dezincify brass making a very dangerous condition. The slight brown to pink coloration is a sign it has progressed too far.
MarkCO said:
Here is the result of conducting the experiment yesterday. I made a solution of 0.75% citric acid, which is the working solution strength of Hornady's ultrasonic cleaning solution at its MSDS maximum percentages. Incidentally, a paper I found online at one point used 40 millimoles/kg (about 0.78%) citric acid to chelate lead battery waste to good effect, but I don't seem to have bookmarked it to put up a link. My point is that we are somewhere in the useful range for chelation, albeit not a high-speed point. But then, we're not talking about high concentrations or thick deposits; just powdered combustion products.
0.75% is far less than the Frankford Arsenal recommendation. From the American Rifleman Staff in the 1960s and reprinted in the NRA book, Handloading, in 1981, Page 77, it states:
"The Arsenal remarked that another method which cleans quite satisfactorily is to soak the cartridge case 5 to 10 minutes in a 5% citric acid solution (a higher percentage in hard water), then thoroughly rinds in water…
…A RIFLEMAN trial of this method gave very good results, and the cleaned case did not tarnish unduly. This method leaves the cases not conspicuously bright, but obviously clean and in good condition."
…A RIFLEMAN trial of this method gave very good results, and the cleaned case did not tarnish unduly. This method leaves the cases not conspicuously bright, but obviously clean and in good condition."
And that is how these look. They don't have the bright shine I would expect from including a detergent in the mix or a car cleaner with wax. For one thing, those lubricate the surface so pins sliding off are going to burnish it smoother than you get without that lubrication. On the other side, as I've mentioned before, I don't like the pH of the citric acid to be brought down by alkaline detergent products. But I have nothing against stopping the machine and adding it for the last hour, well after cupric oxide and verdigris and white zinc blooming have been removed if bright shine is your objective. From my perspective, though, what I got is clean enough.
MarkCO said:
Are you talking about what you see on the right, here?
The first time I saw that, I made the mistake of assuming the pink was copper left by zinc being etched out of the brass. It's not. That brass is fine underneath it. The pink doesn't change color or tarnish over time as copper does because it isn't pure copper. It is cupric oxide, the red form of copper oxide, and it was already there as part of the case oxidation before the citric acid went to work. The citric acid solution just didn't attack cupric oxide effectively (and that 45 Auto case got the FA 5% treatment). But if you drop that same case into a vibratory tumbler, the red oxide is soon gone and gleaming brass is all that remains.
For fun, I've started another experiment with 30% citric acid (near-saturated solution) and a sacrificial case and I'm taking photos. I'll hold off on what I'm expecting to see and just let it play out and will share the result.
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I'm surprised nobody has suggested Brass Juice. It has all the right chemicals in it, beautiful clean brass after only 1/2 hour, can be re-used for several loads (depending how dirty), and NO SS MEDIA NEEDED! Anybody wanna buy a half bottle of leftover LemiShine that I'll never need again?
Jonhnny's reloading bench did a review.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b53OuRtxNE
With the brass I have the water usually comes out pretty dirty. Re-using and keeping dirty water around is also a no-go. Plus, even re-using it a couple time, its much more expensive than the alternitive.