how good of a shooter are you?

M

mdd

New member
We always discuss how accurate this rifle is vs that rifle. How well these bullets perform at this twist rate or that velocity. We often see pictures of targets with nothing but bug-hole sized cloverleaf patterns. What I am asking is how accurate are - you - with your rifle. I see a lot of guys discussing shooting off benches with bags, sleds, bipods, or some combination thereof. What happens when you take all that stuff away? Whatever position works best for you but just you, your rifle, a target at 100 yards, and five shots. Are you a 2" inch shooter? Are you sub-moa? No timing clock here either so no rush. I'm just curious about this because we all have a tendency to focus on equipment. Its tangible and enjoyable but all the shooting aids (bags etc.) remove us from the equation by a lot.
 
When i do my part and am relaxed 1/2 MOA out of 5 shots is very common with my 5R. Takes some more work with my MK12 but i do have a 4 shot group with it right at 1/2 MOA. I shoot bench or prone with a bipod, sometimes i have a rear bag sometimes i don't.

Equipment is a personal object so it's natural to discuss what you like or dislike about this or that. I myself love having something to read or talk about. Whether it be the latest and greatest bolt rifle out or a classic, i enjoy it.

Take away my rear bag and make me stand non supported my groups would be pretty awful.
 
That's very nice shooting but not quite what I was asking. What do you shoot without the bipod, bench, and bags? Just you and your rifle.
 
I can hit a 5 gallon bucket at 530 yards with a Colt 6920, 55gr XM193 and a Aimpoint M4s from rice paddy prone (Actually cornfield prone).....

Well, most of the time....

if I walk my rounds in.:D

I have headshot a muskrat swimming laterally left to right at 125 yards shooting downhill with a Marlin 25N .22 Magnum and an $8 Simmons 3X9 scope while bracing on the deck rail of my house. (On the second shot.);)

Witnessed by my wife and 2 labs.;)

All I heard was "Yes I saw that, why are you so excited, you missed the first shot, Boone can't figure out what you shot..."

I have also missed one at 75 yards using a Colt 6724 and a 4.5 X 14 Leupold Mark 3 fine duplex shooting off a bipod. :eek::confused::mad:
 
I've been shooting offhand quite a bit lately because it's my weakest stance. On a good day with my AR15 with iron sights, I can group 8-10 inches with about 20 rounds. I've never really measured it, I'm just happy if I stay on black. Then there is my Marlin Model 25 22lr that I shoot offhand almost exclusively. Depends on distance and how windy it is but I hit the iron silhouettes 75-90% of the time.

Kneeling and sitting I'm a little better, just more stable and more consistent.

Prone is almost like shooting off the bench for me.
 
It's the internet, we are all awesome!! :D. Just kidding.

In reality I don't much measure groups. I always hit my intended target. When we was little kids we competed with each other by trying to hit ridiculously small items. Such as pennies, pop tabs, hot wheels cars and so on. It somehow made me very naturally a good shot. I was never aware of Moa and that mess until the internet became an everyday item.

I never shot off of rests or sand bags till I joined the army. When we zeroed the first time the drill sergeant was quite impressed with my almost one hole groups, I didn't understand the hoopla at the time because I thought it was normal. I learned real quick that when you qualify on paper targets, one hole = 1 hit so I had to intentionally open up my groups.

Now that I am middle aged with all of the issues that come with busting my hump my whole life I'm not quite as good but still do alright.
 
The bench, rifle rest, and all the other things are for load development as I want the most accurate, fastest load possible. Once that is established then I practice shooting in field positons, mostly sitting, but I don't shoot for groups. Instead I shoot for hits, one shot each at different ranges that I might expect to see while hunting.
 
Never really shot groups off hand that much.But can do drink cans with an AR15 @150 or so,A mite farther with a good bolt gun & a sling.So I guess I would be min. of groundhog pretty easy.
So average middle of the road.Aint to bad the freezer is full :D:D
I do shoot several rifles some better than others. I think your equipment does matter to a point.
 
What happens when you take all that stuff away?
Click to expand...
I have different rifles set up for different purposes. I absolutely love making little tiny groups at varying, longer distances with "bench rifles". Those rifles tend to weigh a bit, and are not much fun to pack around on a hike.

I also have rifles that are set up as "walk around" rifles. They tend to weigh in closer to 5 pounds than 10.

All that said, I do regularly shoot both. Very different shooting techniques. I practice shooting without any shooting aids/supports; and with good practice and technique, one can be surprisingly accurate.

With my bench rifles I can be sub1/2MOA all day long. With my walk around rifles, a challenge for me to keep it near MOA; however, I am still working on it! (from bench)

Now, if you will concede a military sling... and this is also something that I like to practice. Add a sling and a completely different ball game! This is currently one of my favorites, walk around .22 lr bolt rifle with a military sling finding "targets of opportunity" at varying distances from "right here" out to 200 yards. And estimating distance, drop, wind and seeing if I can hit it on the first shot. Also, doing the same but with Super Colibri ammo; roughly making a .22 rifle into a pellet gun trajectory wise. (I have to bring in that "outer marker" a bit closer than 200 yards!)

Now, again with all of that said, I still try to have rifles that are more accurate than I am, regardless of how I will use them; with the exception of one, and it has sentimental value and still manages to be MOM (minute of moose).
 
Last edited:
The main range I have access to is 25 yards max (mostly pistol shooters). I shoot mostly off hand, but some times I lean my elbows on a rest - the rifle is always in my hands, though. With my Marlin 795, I usually get about 7 or 8 out of 10 shots touching each other in a 3/4 inch group with a couple of flyers here and there. I am mostly just practicing for rabbit hunting, so "minute of bunny" is my goal, and I feel pretty comfortable on that. Gonna go out on Monday and do a little practice... might take some pictures and post 'em.
 
With my bolt 223 at 100 yds, offhand, i can consistently shoot 3". With my 22-250 (heavier barrel), I do about 2.5" offhand at 100 yds. That's pretty good in anyone's book.
 
I always shot expert in the Marine Corps at rifle qual, out to 500 from prone but to be fair all you have to do is hit black and its a lot of black. I do shoot from a kneeling and "combat squat" pretty often and with either my ar or either ak74 I can make regular 3 - 3 1/2" groups. And with my .22 at the river there are no safe turtles or beer cans within 40 yards, kneeling being my favorite position in general. I once walked a 20z soda pop bottle accross a frozen pond from kneeling with a Browning hi-power at about 70 yards. Wish I could do that regularly lol
 
It depends on which rifle I use. I'm not obsessed with small groups. If a hunting rifle will shoot into 1.5 MOA I'm happy. Most of my rifles will shoot less than that.
 
I'm real good from the bench as I learned how to aim and "squeeze" shooting competitive archery for years (two time state champion and 17th in the nation). When I'm hunting I find something solid to steady me and always get the bullet behind the shoulder (or if that shot is not there in the neck) out to 300 yards. Have never had a shot farther yet.
 
I shoot best prone. with all of my rifles minus the AK clone and SMLE I shoot
1" prone with no wind if I haven't had any caffine and it's above 50 degrees. standing reduces that to about 2-3" I'm not that good sitting and kneeling gets a good medium 1.5-2.5 inch groups. sandbags and benchs are only proof of how accurate the gun is...not necessarily the gun+shooter combo.
 
Shooter accuracy.

Good question Mdd and one not often addressed.

Great scores Emcon. Can I assume that these were fired on the National Match course of fire?

If so and for those wondering how those scores would break out accuracy wise, here are the MOA (give or take a few 10ths) values for the 10 ring on the SR and MR high power targets at the ranges fired in NM competition:

200 yards standing SF: 4 MOA. On shot per minute, single load

200 yards sitting RF: F 4 MOA. Rapid fire is 10 shots (with reload) in 60 seconds

300 yards prone RF: 2 MOA. Rapid fire is 10 shots (with reload) in 70 seconds

600 yards prone SF: 2 MOA. Slow fire is 10 shots in 10 minutes, single load

No bipods allowed, no bench allowed and no scope sights allowed. It's all fired from position with a good shooting sling with the exception of 200 yards SF. That's fired from the standing position without sling. The closer a score is to 100, the closer a shooter is to shooting 2 MOA at 300 and 600 yards.

An average score of 94% or higher places one into the Master Class and that is pretty hard to achieve.

In my mind, consistant scores in the bullseye competitions is a verifiable measure of shooter skill and rifle accuracy per the original poster's question.

I have no intent here to disparage the combat style matches (I enjoy those too), as success in those matches (or combat for that matter) is also a test of accuracy, but it's hard to define an MOA accuracy level from those activities other than for snipers.

The 300 and 600 yard NM scores also give an idea how well a shooter can read the wind and other atmospheric distractors or inhibitors when trying to get a round into the 10 ring. That is also a test of a shooter's ability to get the best from his rifle at ranges that it can be shot at.

For a deer hunter minute of deer or heart/lungs is great. For a sniper MOA should be the goal. Different measures? Sure, but good measures for what one is doing.

My accuracy level? I hold a Master's card with the service rifle (M14 & M16) in the NM course, as well as a High Master card for the police PPC course of fire.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top