HaaHahaha
How do you protect yourself from quick and intense bear attack like this?
- Thread starter chrisintexas
- Start date
Double Naught Spy
New member
Actually, I worked one summer in SE Alaska doing survey work prior to logging operations. On most days, we did encounter bears. We also encountered our share of backpackers. Been there. Done that. Got the souvenir photos.
Which would seem to put them, graciously, into the naive or ignorant category, if not willful denial of the actual risks. Tents with campers get attacked even when they don't have food. In fact, there is no indication that these campers did anything to bring on the attack, according to Jeff Selinger of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. These folks were camping in an isolated location, and were in what Selinger called wrong place wrong time.
https://www.adn.com/alaska-news/202...nt-on-the-shore-of-skilak-lake-officials-say/
Here is an event from June of last year, no food in tent, campers wearing clean clothes...
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mo...g-on-tent-eventually-bites-camper/ar-BB15CoWz
2010, no food in tent, fatality...
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/07/28/montana.bear.attack/index.html
Another couple (and their dog) attacked in the tent, food locked away in their truck.
https://news.yahoo.com/news/hunt-bear-attacked-74-old-woman-camping-husband-134323544.html
That thousands of campers play the odds and don't have anything happen to them just means they played the odds and doesn't mean the risk isn't actually there.
Bear attacks involving physical contact are very rare, regardless of the type of attack. What is really interesting about virtually all bear attacks is that rare or not, somebody is going to the hospital or the morgue. It isn't the rarity, but the ramifications.
DNS's insight never ceases to amaze me. This is very likely what happened. Bears don't have to want to hurt you to hurt you. They're big, they're incredibly strong, and they have sharp appendages. Just batting you out of the way will break stuff. The two victims kayaked several miles to look for help, so it wasn't a predatory or defensive attack, likely scared the bear and it reacted.
Cue the Timothy Treadwell video. His girlfriend was making lots of whining whimpering sounds, didn't stop the bear from killing and eating them.
Wax on, wax off? Not . . . sure . . . how . . . that . . . helps?
Double Naught Spy
New member
Of course there aren't any lightweight bear-proof tents. Heck, most vehicles aren't bear-proof either.
Let me put it this way. Sleeping in a tent in bear country is like sleeping in a house with all the doors and windows unlocked. Everybody seems to feel safe doing it and then act all surprised when something bad happens and then claim things like "it happened so fast."
Death-Ninja
New member
Its pretty simple, you do not allow food, or food residue into your tent, you do not retreat into your tent to escape a bear that is rummaging about your camp. I work with wild bears, and I have been for some 40 years, both in Alaska, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Manitoba Canada. This story is incomplete, so its impossible to properly assess what actually occurred, however I can certainly make educated guess as to what took place.
The A-number-1 reason for Ursus invading tents is "food" in the tent, even if the backpackers thought it clean of such, a forgotten candy bar in backpack, or whatever, is all required to invite the immediate inspection of ol Ursus, and they will come.
As for defense from bears, the best is bear spray coupled to a cool head, never run, never drop to the ground and play dead, match aggression with aggression and 99.9% of folks will simply leave with a great story for future campfires...
Double Naught Spy
New member
There is only a small element of risk that somebody will walk through your unlocked door as well, but do you lock your doors?
Yep, the range for black bears is extensive, but they have been extirpated or largely extirpated from most of that range. The same for grizzlies. Their 'territory' makes up the vast majority of areas across western north America, but when was the last time grizzlies were seen in Texas, Arizona, Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, etc.?
Literally, 10s of millions of people hike, camp, ride bikes, ride horses, ranch cattle, and reside in areas of known to be not just bear territory, but active bear habitat. The risk to any one of those people at any time is extraordinarily low. Again, it isn't the risks, but the ramifications of being attacked.
The reason why we carry guns for self defense, have guns for home defense, for most of us, isn't because we have high risk lifestyles. The odds of us needing a gun on any given day are actually terribly small. Yet again, it isn't the risk, but the ramification of not being able to defend ourselves that is of concern. I have carried for over 21 years and had a gun for home defense for 40 odd years. Never once have I had a defensive use.
Funny thing about bear attacks. They are exceptionally rare, whether they are the fault of the bear or the human, but they are always quite newsworthy.
OK, so all this bear attack talk made me wonder: how many bear attacks happen?
Bear attack stats
Not exactly a great hazard. The odds of being attacked by ANY bear is kind of like getting hit by a train or picking the winning lottery numbers. I'd say go ahead and camp in bear country. I wouldn't use peanut butter as a deodorant, but the chances are mighty slim.
Bear attack stats
Not exactly a great hazard. The odds of being attacked by ANY bear is kind of like getting hit by a train or picking the winning lottery numbers. I'd say go ahead and camp in bear country. I wouldn't use peanut butter as a deodorant, but the chances are mighty slim.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Scorch, spot on in that these are very uncommon in the grand scheme. To be fair, your stats ONLY include fatalities. That is sort of like only categorizing violent crime statistics based on murders and nothing else. My town, for example, has extremely few murders every year, but has a moderate amount of violent crime including rape, domestic abuse, fights, etc. The OP's incident would not make the stats because neither camper was killed. Again, the issue isn't how many attacks happen so much as the ramifications of the attack. If the scared/angry bruin comes in contact with you for more than just a few seconds, chances are you are going to the hospital or morgue. A single bite or raking of the claws is enough to put you there.
Most bear country campers, backpackers, wilderness hikers (and there are 10s of millions of them each year, right?) will suffer countless other non-newsworthy maladies for every bear attack. "Slip, trip, and fall" injuries were listed as the most common types of injuries requiring assistance (according to the Forest Service safety bulletin we had in the 90s) where extraction from the woods was necessary. More Alaskan campers have their trips cut short by giardia attacks, probably every week, than people get physically attacked by bears.
Take this lady. This event happened a few days later. She is an avid hiker and was enjoying a nice solo overnight hike through bear country (sunset was 11:40 pm) when she last texted her husband at 1:29 am that she had deployed her bear spray against multiple bears and needed help...then nothing. She was found a day and a half later, very much alive, but injured, not from the bears, but apparently from a later off trail tumble after she tried to descend the hill off trail. Of course, this story would not have made national news had the bear aspect not been included. She just would have been another lost hiker that called for help.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/alaska-hiker-found-alive-reported-missing-chased-bears/story?id=78333274
Most bear country campers, backpackers, wilderness hikers (and there are 10s of millions of them each year, right?) will suffer countless other non-newsworthy maladies for every bear attack. "Slip, trip, and fall" injuries were listed as the most common types of injuries requiring assistance (according to the Forest Service safety bulletin we had in the 90s) where extraction from the woods was necessary. More Alaskan campers have their trips cut short by giardia attacks, probably every week, than people get physically attacked by bears.
Take this lady. This event happened a few days later. She is an avid hiker and was enjoying a nice solo overnight hike through bear country (sunset was 11:40 pm) when she last texted her husband at 1:29 am that she had deployed her bear spray against multiple bears and needed help...then nothing. She was found a day and a half later, very much alive, but injured, not from the bears, but apparently from a later off trail tumble after she tried to descend the hill off trail. Of course, this story would not have made national news had the bear aspect not been included. She just would have been another lost hiker that called for help.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/alaska-hiker-found-alive-reported-missing-chased-bears/story?id=78333274
Yeah but sleeping in a tent in bear country or in a house in the summer with windows open and a 44 mag handy is like Harry Callahan going: "Go ahead, make my day".
Now seriously, living life well is about wisely managing risks in every single aspect. Going out at night is risky, skiing is risky, camping is risky, swimming is risky.... The safest life (from the point of view of physical threats) would be life in solitary confinement.
I do not understand why some folks rock climb. Others do not understand why I ride motorcycles. We are all different.
Each of us chooses which risk is worthwhile and acceptable.
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Double Naught Spy
New member
I really doubt most people do. They blunder through life with the "it will never happen to me" attitude and then are all surprised when it happens to them. Being naive, ignorant, complacent, or just in denial seems very common in the attitudes reflected. You know the "we live in a good neighborhood" attitude. Using your example, when most folks go skiing, they aren't looking at the short term and long term impacts of what possible skiing injuries may cause them to endure. They are just thinking about what a good time it will be.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
Great post. A number of things you said are so true.
Yes, you are correct, many folks live in the short time. Just like gambling, which is fine as long as you can live with the results. If you gamble $100.00 and lose and prepared to live with the loss then fine. However if you gamble and bet your House and lose, then you are in a deep mess.
The sign in the parking lot that warned of Grizzlies in the area, would be enough for me. Too much risk for the rewards. I hunt and hike all the time in a good population of Black bears. I know them well but respect them. But a Grizz, lol, no way. The idea of my face being ripped off by a angry charging Grizzly or Brown Bear is enough for nightmares.
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Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
YepBear spray? Shotgun? Handgun?? Dogs? All ridiculous and unnecessary in bear country.
When I camp in a known bear area, I simply hang a sign in the middle of my campsite that says "BEAR FREE ZONE" .
Problem solved.
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Yes, but this IS the reward. The good time has value in itself, that's all I am saying. That's why I first mentioned solitary confinement.
Do you enjoy an ice cream once in awhile? Sweets? A beer? Salami and cured meats?
Why do you? It is for the enjoyment or for the nourishment?
<< They blunder through life with the "it will never happen to me" attitude>>
I honestly don't think so. I do think they go through life "hoping it won't happen to them".
How many of us reading this board are overweight? How many of us sit down more than 4 hrs every day? Because that is riskier than the bear and the negligent discharge.
I do not think most people blunder around unaware of the risks in life. Most people are not stupid and I think it is a mistake to underestimate others that way. They just attached different values to perceived risks and rewards, and yes, sometimes they misjudge risks, but they do not ignore them.
Are every one of us who is overweight and with high blood pressure being stupid people who are blind to the risk? Or do we simply choose to live life despite it?
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Double Naught Spy
New member
I never said there wasn't a reward. Rewards are completely different from risks. You said people evaluate which RISKS are worthwhile and acceptable. I simply pointed out that most people don't truly take risks into consideration. They don't actually do the evaluation you implied that they did.
Another great example, but you are mixing descriptors. I don't know about stupid. I didn't use that word, but I would wholeheartedly argue that most overweight folks with high blood pressure fall into one or more of the categories of being naive, ignorant, complacent, or just in denial. They don't think anything bad is going to happen to them, at least not right now. Most, in this case, are probably just complacent. Of course, when it comes to risks, being complacent is what gets people killed, in security matter, in health, and elsewhere.
Another great example, but you are mixing descriptors. I don't know about stupid. I didn't use that word, but I would wholeheartedly argue that most overweight folks with high blood pressure fall into one or more of the categories of being naive, ignorant, complacent, or just in denial. They don't think anything bad is going to happen to them, at least not right now. Most, in this case, are probably just complacent. Of course, when it comes to risks, being complacent is what gets people killed, in security matter, in health, and elsewhere.