How did the Navy Yard shooter keep his id and clearance?
- Thread starter johnelmore
- Start date
johnelmore
New member
Let me clarify my statement. The more I learn about this individual the more obvious to me that this individual was quite clearly mentally ill. This mental illness was very obvious even to the most uneducated on the topic.
People like this should be removed from society, treated and if released back monitored. There probably are mechanisms of the law to deal with this but this was a failure on many levels.
How this individual received a security clearance is one for the books. Quite possibly the security investigator was smoking something at the time which is the only logical explanation I can come up with.
People like this should be removed from society, treated and if released back monitored. There probably are mechanisms of the law to deal with this but this was a failure on many levels.
How this individual received a security clearance is one for the books. Quite possibly the security investigator was smoking something at the time which is the only logical explanation I can come up with.
Part of the problem....
In the post 9/11/2001 era that we live & work in there is a major problem with homeland security & sworn LE sharing/collate data(personal information).
In the DC/Navy Yard subject's case, the gun details of his arrest were not in his documents or LE paperwork. The subject honestly stated he was never convicted of a felony & his arrest would be removed from his records if he complied with the court actions(which he did).
Some public agencies & even the different offices or units within the agencies do not share information/material in a smooth, seamless fashion.
Doing security work, I've dealt with PDs & sheriff's offices who seem to have serious issues with communication or intelligence gathering.
FWIW; in 2013, there are databases & new systems available that expedite the process but many sworn LE agencies either can't afford them or they require extensive training for the agents/personnel.
One computer system was widely praised in the early 2000s but the FBI refused to endorse it because it's main CEO/programmer was a convicted felon
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In the post 9/11/2001 era that we live & work in there is a major problem with homeland security & sworn LE sharing/collate data(personal information).
In the DC/Navy Yard subject's case, the gun details of his arrest were not in his documents or LE paperwork. The subject honestly stated he was never convicted of a felony & his arrest would be removed from his records if he complied with the court actions(which he did).
Some public agencies & even the different offices or units within the agencies do not share information/material in a smooth, seamless fashion.
Doing security work, I've dealt with PDs & sheriff's offices who seem to have serious issues with communication or intelligence gathering.
FWIW; in 2013, there are databases & new systems available that expedite the process but many sworn LE agencies either can't afford them or they require extensive training for the agents/personnel.
One computer system was widely praised in the early 2000s but the FBI refused to endorse it because it's main CEO/programmer was a convicted felon
.62coltnavy
New member
The hypocrisy is this thread is rampant. Why was Alexis not prevented from purchasing a firearm? Because under federal law he was not disqualified. Period. Arrests are not disqualifying, only convictions for misdemeanors involving violence or felonies. He had no convictions. Disqualification for mental health requires an adjudication of mental defect or disease. A mental health hold entails only a temporary disqualification (usually five years) because there has never been the contested proceeding before a judge where the accused is represented by counsel as required by our good old Constitutional right to due process of law. Alexis had never sought mental health treatment, never been involuntarily detained, and never adjudicated to have had a mental disease. His second amendment rights were intact.
I for one do not want to live in the Minority Report world of pre-crime prevention, and the loss of rights because there is a potential someone might go postal. There is a risk of these incidents in my world, but the risk (when judged against the casualty rate) is pretty insignificant, and can be reduced by universal concealed carry and better security at governmental institutions, for example the elimination of the ban on military member carry. Moreover, the MAIN failing in this case was a territorial spitting match between two different law enforcement agencies. From what I've read, a SWAT team of the Capitol Police was nearby and responded within minutes and could have stopped this massacre before it got going--but they were ordered to stand down, that another agency would handle it--but that other agency did not arrive for twenty minutes, during which all of the shootings occurred. The commander who ordered the stand down has already been relieved and emoted, as he should be.
The system is fine. It does not need to be any more invasive than it already is.
I for one do not want to live in the Minority Report world of pre-crime prevention, and the loss of rights because there is a potential someone might go postal. There is a risk of these incidents in my world, but the risk (when judged against the casualty rate) is pretty insignificant, and can be reduced by universal concealed carry and better security at governmental institutions, for example the elimination of the ban on military member carry. Moreover, the MAIN failing in this case was a territorial spitting match between two different law enforcement agencies. From what I've read, a SWAT team of the Capitol Police was nearby and responded within minutes and could have stopped this massacre before it got going--but they were ordered to stand down, that another agency would handle it--but that other agency did not arrive for twenty minutes, during which all of the shootings occurred. The commander who ordered the stand down has already been relieved and emoted, as he should be.
The system is fine. It does not need to be any more invasive than it already is.
True...
The last post had some good statements.
2 quick points about spree shooters/responses;
In the tragic spree/active shooter incident in the Atlanta GA court complex where a violent subject killed several sworn LE officers & took a woman hostage.
After action reports showed that he set off two silent alarms in the court bldg that caused no LE response.
Reports also showed that the metro Atlanta PD SWAT/crisis unit took nearly 20min to deploy at the scene.
In the 2nd event; a armed, unstable male subject walked at a slow pace, calmly shooting people(killing approx 5). He barricaded himself in a daycare center/pre-school & was later arrested by a SWAT unit. This event was in Wilkinsburg PA, near Pittsburgh, Feb/2000. The borough PD office(with approx 30 sworn LE officers) was about 6/8 blocks from the first crime scene.
I lived in the same area from 1996-2000.
Clyde
The last post had some good statements.
2 quick points about spree shooters/responses;
In the tragic spree/active shooter incident in the Atlanta GA court complex where a violent subject killed several sworn LE officers & took a woman hostage.
After action reports showed that he set off two silent alarms in the court bldg that caused no LE response.
Reports also showed that the metro Atlanta PD SWAT/crisis unit took nearly 20min to deploy at the scene.
In the 2nd event; a armed, unstable male subject walked at a slow pace, calmly shooting people(killing approx 5). He barricaded himself in a daycare center/pre-school & was later arrested by a SWAT unit. This event was in Wilkinsburg PA, near Pittsburgh, Feb/2000. The borough PD office(with approx 30 sworn LE officers) was about 6/8 blocks from the first crime scene.
I lived in the same area from 1996-2000.
Clyde
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
A while back I looked at a piddly job at an accounting firm that worked exclusively for DOD. They told me they were currently only hiring people with active security clearances for ANY position. The janitors had security clearances. I can't imagine the position included anything that was really sensitive at all.
THere are now hundreds of thousands of people with security clearances. How in the world can you expect them to actually vet that many people reliably?
Post #27....
In the winter/spring of 2013, I worked a security detail for a production company which produced new versions of long running soaps.
I constantly saw documents & office paperwork with names, address(home and work), email addresses, phone #s, vehicle information, etc laying around or out in the open.
I repeatedly advised the supervisors & staff to buy a few office shredders to destroy these forms/documents. The staff also had a "Iron Mountain" container to remove sensitive material(scripts, contracts, records, etc).
Even housekeepers, janitors, food service or window washers could get access to or hear/see confidential or secret material.
Crooks, spys, terrorists etc can be clever. They can take advantage of a lot if given that small break.
I even saw a older ep of A&E's Dog the Bounty Hunter, where "Beth Chapman" dug thru a guy's trash looking for clues to find a fugitive.
It may seem trivial but even small details or mistakes can cause problems.
In the winter/spring of 2013, I worked a security detail for a production company which produced new versions of long running soaps.
I constantly saw documents & office paperwork with names, address(home and work), email addresses, phone #s, vehicle information, etc laying around or out in the open.
I repeatedly advised the supervisors & staff to buy a few office shredders to destroy these forms/documents. The staff also had a "Iron Mountain" container to remove sensitive material(scripts, contracts, records, etc).
Even housekeepers, janitors, food service or window washers could get access to or hear/see confidential or secret material.
Crooks, spys, terrorists etc can be clever. They can take advantage of a lot if given that small break.
I even saw a older ep of A&E's Dog the Bounty Hunter, where "Beth Chapman" dug thru a guy's trash looking for clues to find a fugitive.
It may seem trivial but even small details or mistakes can cause problems.
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
I live close to WPAFB and I am acquainted with several in the trades who work there. Almost exclusively ex-military and all with active secret clearances. When they work in many of the offices a sheet is layered over the desk and they have an armed escort. One person was fired for reading a document left out on a desk while waiting for something. It wasn't classified, but reading it was not allowed. The lab he was in was pretty sensitive though.
What is the adage, 'if three know a secret it isn't a secret any longer'?
You can't have hundreds of thousands with clearances and expect the system to keep much out of the public domain or even delay the release. Even going way back Stalin supposedly heard of the successful atomic test before Truman.
What is the adage, 'if three know a secret it isn't a secret any longer'?
You can't have hundreds of thousands with clearances and expect the system to keep much out of the public domain or even delay the release. Even going way back Stalin supposedly heard of the successful atomic test before Truman.