How critical is an exact gun title?
- Thread starter monkeyfist
- Start date
Aguila Blanca
Staff
If it says Smith & Wesson, then the form should have said Smith & Wesson. Yes, you should get it corrected. But I don't think it does.
Are you looking at the actual makers information, or are you looking at the billboard? It says Smith & Wesson on the left side, but doesn't the right side (near the serial number, where I told you to look) say Carl Walther / Made in Germany?
Like this one I found on-line?
Or this one:
That one looks like mine. I am in California and all I get here is basically just a receipt and a Dealer Record of Firearm Sale. On mine it is listed as Smith & Wesson. It came in a Smith & Wesson box. To be honest I didn't know it was made by Walther until after I got it home.
3.Shot.Group.
Moderator
Here, when a gun is transferred to you, it's automatically put into the state police data base, so when a LEO runs your info he gets that information then and there, so they already know whether or not you own the gun.
You can't sell a gun directly to someone or buy one directly, you have to have it transferred by a FFL holder, and during that process they do a background check with the state police of you and the gun, your info(Name, Age,Sex,DOB,Physical Address, SSN, DLN) and the gun's info are stored in the state police data base at that time. So a simple request is all that is needed to determine ownership, no need for any kind of title.
monkeyfist
New member
"If it says Smith & Wesson, then the form should have said Smith & Wesson. Yes, you should get it corrected. But I don't think it does.
Are you looking at the actual makers information, or are you looking at the billboard? It says Smith & Wesson on the left side, but doesn't the right side (near the serial number, where I told you to look) say Carl Walther / Made in Germany?
Like this one I found on-line?"
You are exactly right, Aguila Blanca. I just really looked at it, and you sir, are correct. It says Carl Walther in small print. I think it's really screwed up as it says Smith and Wesson, Springfield, MA in huge print (as you say billboard), but then Carl Walther made in Germany is in smaller print.
You have answered my question and then some. You appear to really know your ****. Feel free to close this thread if you choose.
What I really don't understand is how it could possibly be cheaper to make a gun in Germany and ship it abroad. But now that I've researched it further, It appears German stuff should actually be cheaper to produce. I would have never guessed that.
Are you looking at the actual makers information, or are you looking at the billboard? It says Smith & Wesson on the left side, but doesn't the right side (near the serial number, where I told you to look) say Carl Walther / Made in Germany?
Like this one I found on-line?"
You are exactly right, Aguila Blanca. I just really looked at it, and you sir, are correct. It says Carl Walther in small print. I think it's really screwed up as it says Smith and Wesson, Springfield, MA in huge print (as you say billboard), but then Carl Walther made in Germany is in smaller print.
You have answered my question and then some. You appear to really know your ****. Feel free to close this thread if you choose.
What I really don't understand is how it could possibly be cheaper to make a gun in Germany and ship it abroad. But now that I've researched it further, It appears German stuff should actually be cheaper to produce. I would have never guessed that.
Accepted practice...for well over 100 years....
Doesn't matter who makes the gun. What matters is who sells it.
Ever hear of Sears Roebuck & Co.? Montgomery Wards? Western Auto? They were some of the biggest gun sellers in our history, volume wise. There are others too.
They sold guns they didn't make. Sears never made a gun, as far as I know. Their guns came from gun makers like Winchester, Marlin, Savage, Stevens, etc, and were marked with the store brand name. Western Field, Marshwood, Ted Williams, etc. In many cases, the actual maker's name was no where on the gun. And, the actual maker and model # only mattered when/if you needed replacement parts.
The "information overload" on your gun is the result of various laws, some of which are not even firearm specific (nation where it was made, for one).
Since 1968, all guns imported into the US have to have the importer's name & address. The actual manufacturer's name is also on the gun, not sure if that requirement is a law, or just common business practice today.
For any legal purpose (purchase, sale, registration, etc.,) your gun is a S&W.
The fact that it was made for S&W by Walther only matters when you need parts, or are discussing the specific mechanical attributes of the gun in a firearms discussion.
I have a Browning BDA .45. Clearly marked "Browning" (address, etc) on one side of the slide. Also marked "Browning" on one of the grips. On the other side of the slide, it says "SIG-Sauer system made in Germany".
The gun IS a BROWNING. It also happens to be a SIG P220 model (the original style).
I do not know what your state requires for its paperwork, but it is important to you that you see to it that they get it "right". Otherwise, you could be in legal trouble, if, at some point it becomes an issue. Because if it does, at that time, you will be the one considered to be in error, or in violation, not the five thumbed clerk who wrote incorrect (or incomplete) information on the forms.
Also, make very sure that if you ever have to give the information about your gun(s) to the police, or any govt agency, that not only is your information correct, but what they write down is correct, as well. And its important to do that AT THE TIME the records are created. The maker (seller/importer), caliber and serial # alone are NOT ENOUGH. (unless the gun is one of those where there is only one model made).
As an example, there was a case discussed here some time back, where a fellow got into some legal hassles because the police had incomplete information. I forget all the details, but essentially, he had a S&W .38spl, model XX, ser# 12345.
The police had a report saying "S&W .38cal ser#12345" had been stolen some years before. And that's all they had for info. IIRC, it turned out well, as the police report actually dated from before the gun that the fellow had was manufactured.
It is common knowledge, at least among gun fanciers that makers often use serial # runs for different models. It is rare for one of us to find the identical # on different models of guns, but it's something that was/is done.
There could be a model 10, a model 15, and a model 60, all in ".38 cal" with the exact same serial#. There might be a ser#12345 in .38 S&W caliber, and another gun, different model, in .38 Special caliber also with serial # 12345.
Your gun is mechanically a Walther, Walther made it, and if you need any parts, you need to know its a Walther, and what model. BUT your gun was also made by Walther for S&W, and sold by S&W, so, for ALL legal requirements, it IS a S&W.
Hope this helps.
Doesn't matter who makes the gun. What matters is who sells it.
Ever hear of Sears Roebuck & Co.? Montgomery Wards? Western Auto? They were some of the biggest gun sellers in our history, volume wise. There are others too.
They sold guns they didn't make. Sears never made a gun, as far as I know. Their guns came from gun makers like Winchester, Marlin, Savage, Stevens, etc, and were marked with the store brand name. Western Field, Marshwood, Ted Williams, etc. In many cases, the actual maker's name was no where on the gun. And, the actual maker and model # only mattered when/if you needed replacement parts.
The "information overload" on your gun is the result of various laws, some of which are not even firearm specific (nation where it was made, for one).
Since 1968, all guns imported into the US have to have the importer's name & address. The actual manufacturer's name is also on the gun, not sure if that requirement is a law, or just common business practice today.
For any legal purpose (purchase, sale, registration, etc.,) your gun is a S&W.
The fact that it was made for S&W by Walther only matters when you need parts, or are discussing the specific mechanical attributes of the gun in a firearms discussion.
I have a Browning BDA .45. Clearly marked "Browning" (address, etc) on one side of the slide. Also marked "Browning" on one of the grips. On the other side of the slide, it says "SIG-Sauer system made in Germany".
The gun IS a BROWNING. It also happens to be a SIG P220 model (the original style).
I do not know what your state requires for its paperwork, but it is important to you that you see to it that they get it "right". Otherwise, you could be in legal trouble, if, at some point it becomes an issue. Because if it does, at that time, you will be the one considered to be in error, or in violation, not the five thumbed clerk who wrote incorrect (or incomplete) information on the forms.
Also, make very sure that if you ever have to give the information about your gun(s) to the police, or any govt agency, that not only is your information correct, but what they write down is correct, as well. And its important to do that AT THE TIME the records are created. The maker (seller/importer), caliber and serial # alone are NOT ENOUGH. (unless the gun is one of those where there is only one model made).
As an example, there was a case discussed here some time back, where a fellow got into some legal hassles because the police had incomplete information. I forget all the details, but essentially, he had a S&W .38spl, model XX, ser# 12345.
The police had a report saying "S&W .38cal ser#12345" had been stolen some years before. And that's all they had for info. IIRC, it turned out well, as the police report actually dated from before the gun that the fellow had was manufactured.
It is common knowledge, at least among gun fanciers that makers often use serial # runs for different models. It is rare for one of us to find the identical # on different models of guns, but it's something that was/is done.
There could be a model 10, a model 15, and a model 60, all in ".38 cal" with the exact same serial#. There might be a ser#12345 in .38 S&W caliber, and another gun, different model, in .38 Special caliber also with serial # 12345.
Your gun is mechanically a Walther, Walther made it, and if you need any parts, you need to know its a Walther, and what model. BUT your gun was also made by Walther for S&W, and sold by S&W, so, for ALL legal requirements, it IS a S&W.
Hope this helps.
dogtown tom
New member
Not according to Federal law.
The actual manufacturer must be marked on the firearm. If imported, the importers name, city and state. Variances may be issued, an example is Browning Arms is only an importer, but often the only name shown.
Nope. If manufactured by Walther..........its a Walther.
For the S&W M&P 22 the dealer would record it in his bound book as:
Manufacturer- Walther
Importer- Umarex USA
Model- S&W M&P 22
Walther/Umarex manufacture and import guns with Colt, S&W and HK model names under license from those companies.
Last edited:
dogtown tom
New member
I believe so.