How critical is an exact gun title?

M

monkeyfist

New member
Just bought a Smith and Wesson M&P 22LR a few days ago, but I just noticed the title says Walther as the manufacturer. Damn I should've checked it over more closely when I bought it!

How critical is this? Does it matter?
 
Do you live in some state where such information is some manner of a requirement? Most of us don't. The pistol could say "Chevrolet" on the side and it wouldn't truly matter to anyone.

If you live in some place where your handgun is registered with your state of residence and they have it's serial number recorded and it's associated with your name & address, then you may wish to contact whatever State Agency is responsible for that nonsense and be sure they know exactly what it is.
 
I live in CT. The "title" is a "sale or transfer of all firearms". I have no idea if it makes a bit of difference and the serial number matches up. I just don't want any problems if for some reason I ever decide to sell this gun.

Don't you guys need proof of ownership?
 
Most states don't require any proof of ownership of a gun. Even many of those with registration requirements don't require that the owner have or be able to produce proof of registration in order to own or sell the gun.

But back to the initial question. If the gun says Smith & Wesson, that should be fine for registration/title purposes, even though the gun might have been made by someone else or even be marked "Mfg by XYZ Corp." or something like that. It is an S&W model and has an S&W model name/number and can be traced through S&W. It is the same as when Colt was having guns made for it in Spain; they were Colt guns, cataloged by Colt, sold as Colts and carried that way in dealer books.

Jim
 
Don't you guys need proof of ownership?
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I surely hope not ....cleaned up the reloading room and found a couple I'd forgotten about ....... :D

If I can't keep track of 'em ...... howinthesamhellisthe.govgonnadoit?
 
Monkeyfist said:
Just bought a Smith and Wesson M&P 22LR a few days ago, but I just noticed the title says Walther as the manufacturer. Damn I should've checked it over more closely when I bought it!
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"Title"?

I've never heard of a title fior a firearm. Bill-of-sale, receipt, sure ... title? Nope.

That said, the .22 M&P is made for S&W by Walther. However, IMHO the maker should be listed on paperwork the same as what it says on the side of the firearm, so if it says S&W, the "title" should say S&W. If the rollmark says Walther, the "title" should say Walther.

Monkeyfist said:
I live in CT. The "title" is a "sale or transfer of all firearms". I have no idea if it makes a bit of difference and the serial number matches up. I just don't want any problems if for some reason I ever decide to sell this gun.
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That form is not a title. That form is a report to the CT State Police and to your local PD that you purchased a firearm. The maker listed on that form should be the same as the maker listed on the box and on the side of the firearm.

This form, right? http://www.ct.gov/despp/lib/despp/slfu/firearms/dps-3-c.pdf
 
monkeyfist said:
Don't you guys need proof of ownership?
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Nope. I've never needed any proof of ownership for any guns I've owned, past or present. I bought them legally, I own them legally, and I'm legally allowed to possess firearms. That's all I need and all anyone should need.
 
Thank you all. The people at Cabela's - both times I bought a firearm there- called it a "title".

So, Aguila Blanca, are you saying I should get the form changed to Smith and Wesson? Is it important to do so?
 
"

"... are you saying I should get the form changed to Smith and Wesson? Is it important to do so?"

None of us know what would be important in the People's Republic of Connetecutt but you can be pretty sure any state with gun "titles" is quite likely to void your title on any technicality the local cops can find or manufacture and take your gun away. Heck, in the still relitively free states we hardly have to "prove" ownership of anything but motor vehicles.

I would suggest a change of residence. You might be delighted to live in a state that isn't totally dominated by kindly liberals determined to "help the little people" live safely in the luving arms of gubbermint.
 
That's actually farly common to for a gun manufacturer have, under license, another company manufacture a particular model,

As for some 1911 pistols, here is short list:

STI has an agreement with Armsco to build the frame/slide/barrel of their Spartan Models

Armscor also make the Cimarron 1911s.

American Tactical Imports has their 1911s manufactured by SAM (Shooters Arms Manufacturing)

Umarex has Tisas build their 1911 Regent Models

Sig Sauer has GSG manufacture their 1911 22lr.

These are the ones I can think of now.
 
monkeyfist said:
So, Aguila Blanca, are you saying I should get the form changed to Smith and Wesson? Is it important to do so?
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I have no idea if it's important to get it changed. You haven't yet answered the question as to who is listed on the box and on the side of the gun as the manufacturer. The registration (that's really what it is) should reflect the correct manufacturer -- which is NOT Smith & Wesson. But I don't know how the gun is marked.

Carl Walther makes just about all the .22LR replicas of contemporary handguns (except the GSG 1911-22), irrespective of who makes the centerfire bigger brother. These rimfire clones are made by Walther under license from the makers of the centerfire pistols they resemble. Depending on the licensing agreement, I suppose it's possible that someone other than Walther might be considered the "maker" -- but I don't know.

For example: Colt makes 1911s (duh!). Colt stopped making the Colt Service Ace a long time ago but, a couple of years ago, Umarex USA introduced a trio of Colt-branded 1911 rimfire pistols -- made in Germany by Carl Walther, for Umarex USA, under license from Colt. So what is it? Is it a Colt, a Umarex, or a Walther?

I found a test review on-line with a close-up photo of the right side of one of the Colt/Walther/Umarex 1911-22s. The billboard on the slide says "Colt," but that's not the legal information. The legal information is what's engraved or rollmarked into the receiver, near the serial number. If we look at the "Colt," we can see (disappearing off the screen to the left) that it says

Umarex USA Fort Smith / AR
Made by Carl Walther
Germany​

attachment.php


So ... it's NOT a Colt, and it's not a Umarex, it's a Walther. If it were sold in Connecticut, the State Police registration form should indicate Walther (or Carl Walther) as the manufacturer.

Now ... what does your gun say?
 

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Its Umarex made gun, they own Walther.

They use the name 'carl walther' on their rimfire imports. I'd assume to keep them from mixing it up with Airsoft products and to use the Walther name.

Its not made @ the Walther factory and does not have the Ulm proof mark. Its made at the Umarex factory and has the Köln proof. Same place the P22, SP22 the new ppk .22 and the M&P 22 for S&W are all made.
 
There is one area where an error could cause problems, and that is in German pistols, particularly with Lugers and P.38's.

Serial numbers started with 1 on 1 January each year, ran to 9999, then a suffix letter was added. So 1-9999, 1a to 9999a, 1b to 9999b, and so on. And that was for each maker.

So a full and unique description of a Luger P.08 would be (for example) "Luger P.08, made by code "byf" (Mauser), dated 1942, serial number 1234e." Some dealers and others recording pistol information will omit the suffix letter, or the date, or the maker. If any of the information is not present, the identification is not unique.

Jim
 
Just bought a Smith and Wesson M&P 22LR a few days ago, but I just noticed the title says Walther as the manufacturer. Damn I should've checked it over more closely when I bought it!

How critical is this?
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It's not. S&W put its name on some imported Walther products. My understanding is that corporate relationship is no more.

Does it matter?
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No. Should it? Walther is a quality manufacturer.
 
"None of us know what would be important in the People's Republic of Connetecutt but you can be pretty sure any state with gun "titles" is quite likely to void your title on any technicality the local cops can find or manufacture and take your gun away. Heck, in the still relitively free states we hardly have to "prove" ownership of anything but motor vehicles.

I would suggest a change of residence. You might be delighted to live in a state that isn't totally dominated by kindly liberals determined to "help the little people" live safely in the luving arms of gubbermint."

Thank you wncchester, but I didn't ask for your political stance, just the facts concerning proof of ownership and whether I needed to worry that the proof isn't accurate or whether it is really a non-issue.



"No. Should it? Walther is a quality manufacturer." - lee n. field: I'm not questioning the quality of the gun - though I did just break the takedown lever because it was all but impossible to pull it out.



"You haven't yet answered the question as to who is listed on the box and on the side of the gun as the manufacturer." - It says Smith and Wesson on the gun, thus my original question.
 
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