How concerned are you about the increase of State surveillance?
- Thread starter Nielz
- Start date
I'll be back I have to run to the store and get some aluminum foil.If you don't think this is being monitored, I challenge you to wait a couple days, then start a thread or post somewhere a threat to the president.*
*Now, of course I am not serious. Just trying to prove a point: If you think that the gov't can't wiretap all data communications in the country, and automate keyword searches in both data AND voice, then you are underestimating the computing power available.
Interesting factoid: The NSA has maxed out their local power grid.
*Now, of course I am not serious. Just trying to prove a point: If you think that the gov't can't wiretap all data communications in the country, and automate keyword searches in both data AND voice, then you are underestimating the computing power available.
Interesting factoid: The NSA has maxed out their local power grid.
In the 1930's prior to WW2 and even in the early years of WW2, the citizens of Germany were often quite content. They took vacations, went shopping,
and found all sorts of entertainments - and they went about their ordinairy lives quite mundanely. While certain groups were feeling paranoid and uncomfortable, a great majority went about life as if there was nothing really shocking going on. In fact, quite a few people - if not the majority - thought things were actually getting better.
While some of us will always be concerned about the loss of liberty, there are many people who always seem to be content to give away liberty and look the other way when someone else's liberty is threatened. There are many people who don't mind being drug tested, having their keyboards monitored, having their lives outside their immediate dwellings under 24hr. video surveillance...but there will always be the minority of individuals who will always be outraged by such intrusions.
As for me, I prefer FREEDOM to SAFETY. I'd rather be FREE and outraged than enslaved and content. Some of us are good citizens, but many of us are merely good consumers.
and found all sorts of entertainments - and they went about their ordinairy lives quite mundanely. While certain groups were feeling paranoid and uncomfortable, a great majority went about life as if there was nothing really shocking going on. In fact, quite a few people - if not the majority - thought things were actually getting better.
While some of us will always be concerned about the loss of liberty, there are many people who always seem to be content to give away liberty and look the other way when someone else's liberty is threatened. There are many people who don't mind being drug tested, having their keyboards monitored, having their lives outside their immediate dwellings under 24hr. video surveillance...but there will always be the minority of individuals who will always be outraged by such intrusions.
As for me, I prefer FREEDOM to SAFETY. I'd rather be FREE and outraged than enslaved and content. Some of us are good citizens, but many of us are merely good consumers.
I'd have to agree with the first part of the statement. check out this news story here
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/jun/18/cruel-hoax/
for those of you who don't want to read the whole article here is a quote
I see a lot of the ends justifies the means mentality here and in the story Mr. James referred to in DC.
I have a friend who worked in mental health, one of his consumers would go nuts and barricade himself into a room. PD would show up and make all kinds of promises "we are not going to arrest you, we just want to talk" and once the dude unlocks the door they burst in knock him down and cuff him. I wonder why some people don't trust the police?
I do think LE needs certain tools to fight terrorism I don't mind the govt listening in on international calls where they have some type of intel on one of the involved phones.
TwoXForr...
I didn't mean to be vague, I mean when they are trying to convict a suspect they will lie. Innocent people are sent to jail because of lying and deceit from the police, but it is also a double edge sword because they do not fully understand their right to remain silent, and their right to keep that silence until they see their lawyer. However seeing as laws like the Patriot Act passed that pretty much takes a dump on the 4th and 5th amendment in the name of security, I guess that won't matter much now. I wouldn't be surprised if the next president decides to expand on the Patriot Act.
Epyon
I didn't mean to be vague, I mean when they are trying to convict a suspect they will lie. Innocent people are sent to jail because of lying and deceit from the police, but it is also a double edge sword because they do not fully understand their right to remain silent, and their right to keep that silence until they see their lawyer. However seeing as laws like the Patriot Act passed that pretty much takes a dump on the 4th and 5th amendment in the name of security, I guess that won't matter much now. I wouldn't be surprised if the next president decides to expand on the Patriot Act.
Epyon
Edward429451
Moderator
It's a cops job to lie. Cops can do anything or say anything they want to get a suspect to do what they want to in the pursuit of their duties...(almost an exact quote from the CSPD to me). On the other hand, a citizen who lies to the cops is up on a felony...
And don't you guys know about tinfoil? Thats propaganda that it shields. It acts as an antenna and increases their signal quality...
And don't you guys know about tinfoil? Thats propaganda that it shields. It acts as an antenna and increases their signal quality...
WeedWacker
New member
I used to think that it was ok to have ppl watch my phone records cause I had nothing to say that would interest them, but after working with some troubled kids at a childrens home i realize there has to be a line in the sand or they will walk over you and the fight to restore order almost always gets very heated and possibly violent.
Remember to keep this real too. it's not always about conspiracy and I hope to not use this sign again but it's almost necessary.
Remember to keep this real too. it's not always about conspiracy and I hope to not use this sign again but it's almost necessary.
So Recon
What the cops should have stated, you will be arrested, they resolved the situation without shooting him and knocking down his door, which I am sure if there were other residents sharing his abode, would not have appreciated.
You just cannot please some people. If I lie to a guy to come into my office and state he will not be arrested, is that not better than going to his house to take him into custody in front of his wife and children, not to mention all the safety issues.
Grow up, and come into the real world. I have lied to suspects and told them I had forensic evidence to get them to confess, (I had other evidence as well, I just portrayed my case as stronger than it was). But he was lying to me, so I lied to him. His confession made it easier on everyone, including the victim who would not have to get up on the stand and relive the terror he put her through.
I have never lied on the stand, I have never fabricated evidence and to the best of my knowledge and abilities I have never put an innocent man in jail for a crime he did not commit. I have never seen anyone lie on the stand or do something immoral or illegal to get a conviction. A lot of guilty ones have gotten away, either thru my own inability to discover the evidence, or victims being unwilling to cooperate or just plain dumb luck.
People have such strong opinons about the police mostly wrong ones, from TV and movies. Most nights I just go home, kiss the misses, play with the kid and dont think another thought about my day or the criminals I deal with (unless it is to bitch to the wife about my workload, not the work). People think cops are obsesive, and so dedicated to thier work. BS. Just regular guys making thier way like everyone else.
(I know the bad apples, ect.....)
So grow up, cops lie during thier job but not to the extent you would love to believe so you can turn them into villians just so you feel better and so superior.
I know I am going to get blasted, but walk a couple of mile in my shoes and then you opinon may mean a little more to me.
What the cops should have stated, you will be arrested, they resolved the situation without shooting him and knocking down his door, which I am sure if there were other residents sharing his abode, would not have appreciated.
You just cannot please some people. If I lie to a guy to come into my office and state he will not be arrested, is that not better than going to his house to take him into custody in front of his wife and children, not to mention all the safety issues.
Grow up, and come into the real world. I have lied to suspects and told them I had forensic evidence to get them to confess, (I had other evidence as well, I just portrayed my case as stronger than it was). But he was lying to me, so I lied to him. His confession made it easier on everyone, including the victim who would not have to get up on the stand and relive the terror he put her through.
I have never lied on the stand, I have never fabricated evidence and to the best of my knowledge and abilities I have never put an innocent man in jail for a crime he did not commit. I have never seen anyone lie on the stand or do something immoral or illegal to get a conviction. A lot of guilty ones have gotten away, either thru my own inability to discover the evidence, or victims being unwilling to cooperate or just plain dumb luck.
People have such strong opinons about the police mostly wrong ones, from TV and movies. Most nights I just go home, kiss the misses, play with the kid and dont think another thought about my day or the criminals I deal with (unless it is to bitch to the wife about my workload, not the work). People think cops are obsesive, and so dedicated to thier work. BS. Just regular guys making thier way like everyone else.
(I know the bad apples, ect.....)
So grow up, cops lie during thier job but not to the extent you would love to believe so you can turn them into villians just so you feel better and so superior.
I know I am going to get blasted, but walk a couple of mile in my shoes and then you opinon may mean a little more to me.
For some reason people have this opinion that the playing field between "cops and robbers" is level. There is a line that can be crossed but I am not sure where that line is. As you stated that lying on the stand is way over that line but in the interrogation room is a different story. Almost all Americans get their degrees in Criminal Justice and Law off of the TV and have never set foot in a courtroom. Everyone needs to serve on jury duty a few times and have to sit in CDV or DUI court for a full day. That way they can understand the power of stupidity and frustrations of LEO.
TwoXForr, I was just agreeing that yes, cops lie. I used two examples of police lying to prove a point. I can see how in some neighborhoods people do not trust the police at all. I am not making any judgements here, I'm sure lying is part of the job. I do think it is a shame when police officers lie to suspects who turn out to be innocent. Do rights get voilated? I don't know.
I take by your response that you are some type of LEO. Is it not your job to "land people in jail"? have you ever assumed somebody is guilty when he was not? We all make mistakes.
I am a grown up thank you, and it seems we are in agree on the issue of whether cops lie. I did not mean to imply that you or any of your fellow officers purger themselves in court. I appreciate your service to the community work in.
You did not address the issue of CHP lying to the high school students. I think that was despicable. From your lack of response, it seems you agree with me.
This thread is about the Government watching us, and my point here is that we need to be watching them too. We agree that police lie, and you yourself said there are bad apples out there. I spoke up to agree with Epyon, because people start talking about the tin foil hats when you talk about not trusting the government.
I take by your response that you are some type of LEO. Is it not your job to "land people in jail"? have you ever assumed somebody is guilty when he was not? We all make mistakes.
I am a grown up thank you, and it seems we are in agree on the issue of whether cops lie. I did not mean to imply that you or any of your fellow officers purger themselves in court. I appreciate your service to the community work in.
You did not address the issue of CHP lying to the high school students. I think that was despicable. From your lack of response, it seems you agree with me.
This thread is about the Government watching us, and my point here is that we need to be watching them too. We agree that police lie, and you yourself said there are bad apples out there. I spoke up to agree with Epyon, because people start talking about the tin foil hats when you talk about not trusting the government.
Did mean to come off nasty, sorry about that.
Not that farmiliar with the High School cops issue but from what little I have heard it was nasty and stupid.
As for this:
My job is to protect the public and ensure that the people under my supervision, follow the laws and rules laid out for them (Parolees). I dont send people to jail, they send themselves there with thier choices.
Yes on occasion I have been wrong to some degree. (Not this job, but my past job as a felony crimes Investigator it was not so cut and dry and lead itself to more misconceptions about a persons guilt.) But before I changed a person from just suspect to subject, I was always pretty damn certian. Plus each level progressively is harder and harder to prove, from probable cause up to and including establishing guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
I personally find most conspriacry therios pretty laughable due to basic incompetincy of people in general and the goverment in particular.
Not that farmiliar with the High School cops issue but from what little I have heard it was nasty and stupid.
As for this:
My job is to protect the public and ensure that the people under my supervision, follow the laws and rules laid out for them (Parolees). I dont send people to jail, they send themselves there with thier choices.
Yes on occasion I have been wrong to some degree. (Not this job, but my past job as a felony crimes Investigator it was not so cut and dry and lead itself to more misconceptions about a persons guilt.) But before I changed a person from just suspect to subject, I was always pretty damn certian. Plus each level progressively is harder and harder to prove, from probable cause up to and including establishing guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
I personally find most conspriacry therios pretty laughable due to basic incompetincy of people in general and the goverment in particular.
We are getting off the subject but I have mixed emotions about the High School scare. I have read all the arguments about the police lyiing to them but daggoneit kids have to be scared witless for it to sink in. If just a few can remember how they felt maybe some good will have come from it and it won't be a total loss. Ask around and kids fall into either those that have seen so much violence and death that they are immune to it or those that have not experienced it at all and think it can't happen to me.
I think about the case where the HS cheerleaders went to Hawaii and the first night one got drunk and fell off the balcony and was killed. Her parents won a $600,000 lawsuit from the chaperone. These types of events should make you realize that it can happen to you.
I would find them funny if so many people didn't believe them totally and refuse to acknowledge the truth when staring it in the face.
I think about the case where the HS cheerleaders went to Hawaii and the first night one got drunk and fell off the balcony and was killed. Her parents won a $600,000 lawsuit from the chaperone. These types of events should make you realize that it can happen to you.
I would find them funny if so many people didn't believe them totally and refuse to acknowledge the truth when staring it in the face.
Double Naught Spy
New member
Sure, given that we know that the US is vulnerable to attack on its own soil, you would hate to have US troops training on US soil to protect US soil, especially major metropolitan areas with lots of people. No, it is best they train to fight and defend foreign lands and not CONUS.
It is said and paranoid when we know that foreign powers and entities have a strong dislike for the US, but at the same time are not trusting of our own troops on our own soil.
diamondsun
Inactive
I hate to resurrect old threads, but after reading this one, I wanted to pass on a little sign of things to come if we continue on our current course. This little gem is brought to you by the wonderful socialists of the New British People's Republik. And yes, this is a real ad on a real bus stop.
