How can we really get a third party?

[Redworm]

Shacking-up, homosexuality, abortion were not accepted, although it happened, but to a much less extent.

Just because you find cohabitation and homosexuality immoral doesn't mean it is. What's immoral about sharing an apartment with a roommate? What's immoral about being with someone you love?

It has turned its back on the living God

The difference is that I think that's one of society's greatest accomplishments. Not everyone believes in the same thing you do, try to remember that.

And the acceptance of homosexuality and murder of the unborn. I accept neither. Both are terrible sins for which we will suffer the consequences, and are to some degree.

Didn't some persian jewish guy once say "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

or something to that effect?

 

[JerryM]

Hi Redworm,

Your problem is shared by many today who do not believe the authority of the Bible as God?s revealed truth to mankind. One?s conscience can only operate within the parameters it understands. A native raised as a headhunter thinks that headhunting is moral, if he ever thinks of morality.

[Just because you find cohabitation and homosexuality immoral doesn't mean it is. What's immoral about sharing an apartment with a roommate? What's immoral about being with someone you love?]

There are moral absolutes. I do not define what is moral. Only God can do that, and He has in his Word. He has given some clear instructions and commands as to what is moral and immoral, and they are absolutes. He does not need either your or my approval as He is sovereign. If you reject that then who or what is to define morality? It is harmful to a society, and all you have to do is to look at things like teen pregnancy, and AIDS to see that.

[The difference is that I think that's one of society's greatest accomplishments. Not everyone believes in the same thing you do, try to remember that.]

Strange that you would find it a great accomplish to reject God, the Creator of the universe. But you are not alone. Those who do that will stand before Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment, Revelation 20, and spend eternity in Hell. Not much of an accomplishment.

[Didn't some persian jewish guy once say "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."]

I totally accept that. However, it is not well understood. Note that he is talking to hypocrites who were doing that for which they condemned others. Then, Jesus said, "first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
Note that he never said that one couldn?t make judgments, but judgments must be made without hypocrisy, and in accordance with His words.

In fact, we are commanded to make judgments as the Bible tells us not to have fellowship with certain people, and homosexuals would be one group.

Jesus said that we could know men by their fruits.

You see you have no understanding of the passage, but use it to deflect one from making judgments that we are commanded to make.
I fully expect to be judged by the judgments I make. They are in the Bible and pertain to me and to you, and to all mankind.

Have a good day,
Jerry

 

[Redworm]

Your problem is shared by many today who do not believe the authority of the Bible as God?s revealed truth to mankind.

Actually I don't believe it's a problem at all. I certainly respect your right to believe in whatever diety you choose but you should respect the right of others to believe in other dieties or no diety at all.

There are moral absolutes. I do not define what is moral. Only God can do that, and He has in his Word. He has given some clear instructions and commands as to what is moral and immoral, and they are absolutes. He does not need either your or my approval as He is sovereign. If you reject that then who or what is to define morality? It is harmful to a society, and all you have to do is to look at things like teen pregnancy, and AIDS to see that.

But what about those of us who don't believe in a god? Who defines morality then? To suggest that those of us who don't share your religious beliefs should be held to the moral standards presented by your diety of choice goes against the very concept of freedom of religion.

Teen pregnancy and AIDS are the result of more issues than simply cohabitation or a rejection of religion. I would venture that conservative parents who refuse to educate their children on the realities of sex at an early enough age are just as responsible.

Strange that you would find it a great accomplish to reject God, the Creator of the universe. But you are not alone. Those who do that will stand before Christ at the Great White Throne Judgment, Revelation 20, and spend eternity in Hell. Not much of an accomplishment.

It's because I don't believe in the same things you do. I have never claimed that they're not true but I do feel that our society's quest for knowledge and a rejection of superstition is far more beneficial than rejecting science and simply accepting things on faith.

I appreciate your concern but I don't believe in hell. Unless of course you're refering to Reno.

You see you have no understanding of the passage, but use it to deflect one from making judgments that we are commanded to make.

I was raised Roman Catholic, I have a pretty good understanding. The bottom line remains "judge not lest ye be judged". Your god also commands that he is the only one with the authority to judge the actions of others because no one is without sin.

But then again some people don't believe in the concept of sin so it's all gravy anyways.

Have a good day,
Jerry

Gracias And may the Force be with you.

 

[Rich Lucibella]

I'm not going to have religious debate become the focus of any topic at TFL, and that is well known here. I have my own spiritual beliefs, but this is neither the place to testify, to witness nor to convert on issues of Faith.

Religious debate is a non-sequitur, except for true religious scholars. I see none of those here. Simply persons demanding that others accept "my truth" as "The Truth". That's not debate; it's a question: Is your God my God? Save it for elsewhere.

I expect I won't have to intervene on this point here again. Enough said. Back to the topic at hand.
Rich

 

[JerryM]

Rich,
The platforms of the various parties are what we base our choices upon, along with the candidates and what they say. Accordingly, the moral choices we must make are the most important to many of us, and myself in particular.

When a discussion surfaces where the choices get down to the morality of the party platform it is necessary to discuss it if we are to have a true discussion. The subject as to "How to get a third party" is such a discussion. I cannot accept the amoral and immoral parts of some of the third parties. That is a reason we cannot get one.

I intend to always do such until banned, which I expect to be, but I had rather state the truth than belong to any forum. I realize this is your house and you make the rules, but I do not intend to compromise my discussions as I believe this type is important to the overall good of the nation.

As for scholarship, I am not sure you would really recognize it in the religious arena.

Sorry, but this is the way it is for each of us and you have the last word.

Jerry

 

[Scott Conklin]

(like the "life" of a 1st-term embryo/fetus,

I don't even need a moral compass for this. Since there is no actual debate about whether it is "alive" can you show my genetic evidence it is not human? When you can, get back to us...

 

[Rich Lucibella]

Jerry-
You're right, I do have the last word; your offer to martyr yourself on the Godless policies of TFL (to which you agreed), notwithstanding.

You've already been instructed that morality is not identical to religion for most. In fact, the finest religious scholars in the history of the world have made that very distinction, from treatise to simple instruction like "Give to Caesar that which belongs to Caesar". A moral obligation is not always a religious obligation except for those who consider their every act to be directed by their God. Nothing unhealthy about living your life that way...it's your life; mine is mine. I simply won't allow people to put it on a billboard when Staff pays for and works to maintain the space. Get a blog.

OK?

I intend to always do such until banned, which I expect to be, but I had rather state the truth than belong to any forum. I realize this is your house and you make the rules, but I do not intend to compromise my discussions as I believe this type is important to the overall good of the nation.

In that case, I'll suggest that you voluntarily take your leave of us. It would be immoral to demand an audience for your personal views in a man's living room, when you agreed to abide by his limits to the range of discussion and he has asked you to cease and desist.

Rich Lucibella
Hardly a religious scholar; proudly Jesuit educated from age 18 thru 24