Minute of whitetail just doesn't cut it for me. I can hit an 8" paper plate with a 4" revolver @ 100 yads. Not gonna take it hunting, tho. I want to have total confidence that my rifle will hit very near my point of aim. Deer season is short, shooting season much longer. I enjoy shooting my hunting rifles in the offseason and as oft has ben said, only accurate rifles are interesting.
How accurate should a deer rifle be?
- Thread starter hoytinak
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In my neighborhood 200 yards is a long shot at a deer and 50 - 100 is more typical. My lever actions and shotguns all hold 4" or a bit better at 100 yards which is as far as I would shoot with those guns. I figure any gun that will shoot minute of deer heart is good enough at that range. My other guns are MOA or near enough that I can count on a 3" group or smaller at 200 yards and is my preference. I won't let a 4" group stop me from using a gun but better is always nicer.
reloader28
New member
Zerojunk
I like that last statement!
Never thought about it that way. How true.
I like that last statement!
Never thought about it that way. How true.
Jack O'Conner
New member
I zero my 30-30 carbine for dead on at 150 yards because my hunts are often within foothills and forest terrain. Benchrest is fine for sighting in. But realistic practise is dropping to a sitting position and shooting two quick shots at an empty 1 gallon paint can for a target. Actually any makeshift field shooting position is better than shooting from standing position.
Hits anywhere into this target are genuine kill shots for animals the size of deer or elk. Quick and lethal damage to the chest organs gets the job done.
Good shooting to you.
Jack
Hits anywhere into this target are genuine kill shots for animals the size of deer or elk. Quick and lethal damage to the chest organs gets the job done.
Good shooting to you.
Jack
coloradosherpa
New member
"Other than for bragging about one's hunting skills there is no point in sneaking up on an animal when you can kill him from where you are."
I've been wrong all these years! All this time we have been calling this sport "hunting" and developing our "hunting skills" when all along it has just been "shooting" and "shooting skills". If you don't have the skill to get close enough to hit the damn thing 100 out of 100 times, then don't shoot it! Refrain from causing it a slow horrible death just so you can brag to your buddies at the rifle range of what an awesome rifleman you are. Let someone who actually has hunting skills have a whack at it. Remember, this is hunting not killing. If all you are doing is making meat with no concern for sport, just go to the supermarket, its cheaper anyways after you consider tags, travel expense, time off work, & labor/time. Hell, maybe we should all just get barrett M82A1s in 50 BMG and just blast them from one horiozn to the other. why not?? Why should we walk all the way over there to shoot it when we can do it from here? I mean, it may not even be there by the time we arrive! why take the chance?!
If you want a shooting challenge, go to the rifle range. Targets don't suffer animals do. In hunting the challenge is learning the animal's habits and using this knowledge to close the distance to a reasonable level that will ASSURE a clean kill. As for people missing at 75 yds, they need to seriously reconsider their hobbies. And perhaps get some serious instruction.
I've been wrong all these years! All this time we have been calling this sport "hunting" and developing our "hunting skills" when all along it has just been "shooting" and "shooting skills". If you don't have the skill to get close enough to hit the damn thing 100 out of 100 times, then don't shoot it! Refrain from causing it a slow horrible death just so you can brag to your buddies at the rifle range of what an awesome rifleman you are. Let someone who actually has hunting skills have a whack at it. Remember, this is hunting not killing. If all you are doing is making meat with no concern for sport, just go to the supermarket, its cheaper anyways after you consider tags, travel expense, time off work, & labor/time. Hell, maybe we should all just get barrett M82A1s in 50 BMG and just blast them from one horiozn to the other. why not?? Why should we walk all the way over there to shoot it when we can do it from here? I mean, it may not even be there by the time we arrive! why take the chance?!
If you want a shooting challenge, go to the rifle range. Targets don't suffer animals do. In hunting the challenge is learning the animal's habits and using this knowledge to close the distance to a reasonable level that will ASSURE a clean kill. As for people missing at 75 yds, they need to seriously reconsider their hobbies. And perhaps get some serious instruction.
kodiakbeer
Moderator
Really? I'd love to sit around a campfire with you and ask questions about how much the particular bullet/load you're using drops at 470 yards or 532 yards, or how much drift you get with an 8mph 70 degree cross wind or 6mph 50 degree cross wind at 480 yards? How does your hold change if the animal is at those ranges but 20 degrees higher or 30 degrees lower at those ranges? Or even how you estimate those distances and wind speeds?
Of course, I'm betting you couldn't. And if you start blazing away and the animal doesn't fall, it must have been a miss, eh?
Don't get all forum snippy. I have killed more deer than I can remember and I think one was over two hundred yards. The majority were inside of 40 yards with a bow. The elk I have killed were all inside of 200 yards with a rifle. The one I killed with a bow was at 30 yards. And, I have been within 20 feet of a couple of bulls, but they came blasting in to a cow call and I had no way to get the bow drawn without being detected. I have been within 100 yards of at least a dozen herd bulls, a couple 350 or better. But, a bow is useless at that distance, and closing to 40 or 50 with a dozen cows milling around is hard. You aren't going to tell me anything about hunting.
But, there are rifleman out there that are a lot better shot than I am, something that some on this forum don't seem to be able to accept.
coloradosherpa
New member
"You aren't going to tell me anything about hunting."
hmmm, I already did. No need to restate the obvious. Kodiak beer is right too.
Besides you're the one with your panties in a bunch, not me.
"But, there are rifleman out there that are a lot better shot than I am, something that some on this forum don't seem to be able to accept. "
Just because they can does not mean that they should. I think this is called morals or ethics or something like that
hmmm, I already did. No need to restate the obvious. Kodiak beer is right too.
Besides you're the one with your panties in a bunch, not me.
"But, there are rifleman out there that are a lot better shot than I am, something that some on this forum don't seem to be able to accept. "
Just because they can does not mean that they should. I think this is called morals or ethics or something like that
Thought you did.
You make comments of what I have done. I just told you what I have done. I would never take a shot at 500 yards. But, there are guys who can and only the hunter has the ultimate decision to take the shot or not depending on his skill. You have no idea what that is.
What is an inhumane shot for you could be a chip shot for another.
Don't judge somebody else's skill by yours.
kodiakbeer
Moderator
Are there places you can hunt that are level as a table, with range markers and wind speed indicators? I don't think so. I can consistently ring the 500 yard gong on a given day at the old military range down the road - a day with no wind or a low consistent wind, and a handy print-out from a ballistics table. I think most good shooters could, given the right rifle, optics and data.
However, shoot off an impromptu tree limb rifle rest at an estimated distance with terrain features that funnel and change the wind directions and it becomes a very different matter. There's some military snipers that could dope all that out and be pretty consistent, but even they have a trained spotter with them and often resort to walking the rounds onto the target - and if they hit the guy in the knee, it's no big deal since he's still out of the fight.
I've heard about these great long range shots all my life, and even made some when I was younger (and stupider). What you don't hear about is the misses or... were they misses? The animal ran into the brush, so who knows if it was a hit? People don't talk about those - they only talk about when it all comes together and they make the shot. So now, when I hear about that terrific shot at 500+ yards, I no longer think of what a great shot it was. I just wonder how many crippled animals led up to that one braggin' shot.
I agree with you in general. Two hundred yards is my self imposed limit and that is with some kind of rest. It's about one hundred yards if I have nothing to lean on.
But, let me give you an example so you can understand the scenario that others have. One of the guys I hunt with has a tripod stand on the edge of a bean field with a nice cushioned rest on the front rail. He routinely kills 6 or 8 deer mostly doe out of it every year and fills his freezer and others who want some venison. We really need to kill about 100 doe, but that is another story.
Typically the wind doesn't blow to amount to anything most days. Zeroed at 200 he is down about 16 at 400 and he routinely kills deer coming in to the field on the other side about 400 yards away. He has a perfect rest knows the exact distance and hunts the same stand most days.
Now if he was walking around still hunting would he take such a shot. No.
He makes no claim that he is doing anything other than filling his freezer.
Personally, I don't like sitting in stands but some do.
The last day I hunted this year I saw 16 deer. I walked right through group of them because I was too lazy to walk around them on the way to sitting on a bluff over the river hoping for a good buck. When I came back out they were right back in the field where I had chased them out. I never fired a shot this year because I still had a freezer full of elk and deer.
As far as hunting in the Rockies which I do a lot, it is not unusual to have a 30 MPH wind, and you can't guarantee which way it is blowing between you and an elk 400 yards away. And, sometimes it doesn't blow at all. You can find a nice rock, lay your jacket on it, pull out your rangefinder, and see if it is something you can do.
But, let me give you an example so you can understand the scenario that others have. One of the guys I hunt with has a tripod stand on the edge of a bean field with a nice cushioned rest on the front rail. He routinely kills 6 or 8 deer mostly doe out of it every year and fills his freezer and others who want some venison. We really need to kill about 100 doe, but that is another story.
Typically the wind doesn't blow to amount to anything most days. Zeroed at 200 he is down about 16 at 400 and he routinely kills deer coming in to the field on the other side about 400 yards away. He has a perfect rest knows the exact distance and hunts the same stand most days.
Now if he was walking around still hunting would he take such a shot. No.
He makes no claim that he is doing anything other than filling his freezer.
Personally, I don't like sitting in stands but some do.
The last day I hunted this year I saw 16 deer. I walked right through group of them because I was too lazy to walk around them on the way to sitting on a bluff over the river hoping for a good buck. When I came back out they were right back in the field where I had chased them out. I never fired a shot this year because I still had a freezer full of elk and deer.
As far as hunting in the Rockies which I do a lot, it is not unusual to have a 30 MPH wind, and you can't guarantee which way it is blowing between you and an elk 400 yards away. And, sometimes it doesn't blow at all. You can find a nice rock, lay your jacket on it, pull out your rangefinder, and see if it is something you can do.
kodiakbeer
Moderator
Well, I suppose a place like a bean field with known ranges and a sturdy blind/rest pretty much qualifies as a shooting range and so, yeah, I guess that would be in the ethical category. That's really outside my experience so such a scenario wouldn't have occurred to me.
coloradosherpa
New member
"thought you did."
No, I did. Period. Nothing I said was inaccurate in any way.
Secondly, this was never a trash talking session about you or your abailities. You stated in your first or second post that you personally did not take these shots, there was no need to restate it. So this has nothing to do with you.
Also, I have taken those long shots (I'm probably not as seasoned as some of you, but I'm learning). My last long shot was 448 yards at a WY pronghorn in a nasty cross wind. I made the shot, and got my goat. However I shoot ALOT. I know I can make these shots in most cases. But I just don't believe that it is right to do so anymore. On top of that I watched a road hunter nail one from a LONG way out and botch the shot. I helped him find it and I ended up putting it out of it's misery. Very heartbreaking. The bullet can't be called back and the hurt can't be undone, so please think very carefully before you send that slug down range.
The point is this: I dont care one bit what kind of super sniper 5000 death bringer marksman you are (or in most cases, THINK you are). I don't care if you can hit a silver dollar at 1000 yards. You have no business taking shots at a living breathing critter that feels pain at anything over a couple hundred yards. Kodiak beer is correct about the support (or lack of it), the wind, the terrain, & other factors that normally don't matter on the range. And even in the field they may not matter all of the time, but you NEVER know which time it is going to matter. Maybe some people are OK with the risk, I would prefer not to take it though.
It comes down to morals and ethics. Just because we can ( or THINK we can) doen not mean that we should.
As for the beanfield "hunters", that is just target shooting with live targets. Calling it hunting is a stretch at best. It's more like going to the super market with a rifle. And to be honest I'd bet many folks doing this kind of hunting botch shots too and just don't talk about it. However, if someone knew the range precisely and shot at the range alot, I don't suppose I would have a problem with it. But you have to admit that is a completely different scenario from normal hunting.
No, I did. Period. Nothing I said was inaccurate in any way.
Secondly, this was never a trash talking session about you or your abailities. You stated in your first or second post that you personally did not take these shots, there was no need to restate it. So this has nothing to do with you.
Also, I have taken those long shots (I'm probably not as seasoned as some of you, but I'm learning). My last long shot was 448 yards at a WY pronghorn in a nasty cross wind. I made the shot, and got my goat. However I shoot ALOT. I know I can make these shots in most cases. But I just don't believe that it is right to do so anymore. On top of that I watched a road hunter nail one from a LONG way out and botch the shot. I helped him find it and I ended up putting it out of it's misery. Very heartbreaking. The bullet can't be called back and the hurt can't be undone, so please think very carefully before you send that slug down range.
The point is this: I dont care one bit what kind of super sniper 5000 death bringer marksman you are (or in most cases, THINK you are). I don't care if you can hit a silver dollar at 1000 yards. You have no business taking shots at a living breathing critter that feels pain at anything over a couple hundred yards. Kodiak beer is correct about the support (or lack of it), the wind, the terrain, & other factors that normally don't matter on the range. And even in the field they may not matter all of the time, but you NEVER know which time it is going to matter. Maybe some people are OK with the risk, I would prefer not to take it though.
It comes down to morals and ethics. Just because we can ( or THINK we can) doen not mean that we should.
As for the beanfield "hunters", that is just target shooting with live targets. Calling it hunting is a stretch at best. It's more like going to the super market with a rifle. And to be honest I'd bet many folks doing this kind of hunting botch shots too and just don't talk about it. However, if someone knew the range precisely and shot at the range alot, I don't suppose I would have a problem with it. But you have to admit that is a completely different scenario from normal hunting.
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So it is OK for you to shoot antelope at 450 yds in a strong crosswind, a shot that you can make in most cases, yet, for other people, if they can't do it 100% of the time they shouldn't shoot it? And define a couple hundred yards, are you referring to 200 yards or just a indefinite distance that you can tweak if you aren't able to get any closer?
As for the accuracy of a deer rifle. Some of the time I hunt thick timber where a 200 yard shot is really stretching things and a 50 yd shot is most likely, I am fine with my 30-30 that shoots 2 MOA out to 300 yds, but most of the time, I am hunting areas that a 400+ yd shot opportunity is very common. Even though I usually try and stalk to <100 yds, I want to know that if I want to shoot it at that distance, my rifle will hold MOA at that distance. No sense in trying a long shot with a semi-accurate rifle. I spend a bunch of time practicing out at 400+ yards, but it is the bowhunter in me that usually decides to get as close as possible.
kodiakbeer
Moderator
Taking his comment out of context is a poor way to argue a point - especially when his ACTUAL statement is a few posts above.
What he said was:
I voted for the 1"-2" category for how accurate should a deer rifle be, which was the actual question...
The topic of "How accurate should a deer hunter be" is another topic entirely...
As for the "new" thread topic; I don't view it as my place to judge others for their hunting tactics any more than I view it as their place to judge me for what TV show I watch tonight... To each their own and we all have the right to make our own choices, good or bad, at least for now...
The topic of "How accurate should a deer hunter be" is another topic entirely...
As for the "new" thread topic; I don't view it as my place to judge others for their hunting tactics any more than I view it as their place to judge me for what TV show I watch tonight... To each their own and we all have the right to make our own choices, good or bad, at least for now...
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