How accurate do you weigh powder?

Depends on the gun, the load and the use.

I load most of my ammo on a Dillon 650XL. Measuring charges, I typically see +/- 0.1 grains be it for pistol or rifle. If I pick 4.0 grains, rarely will I get 4.1, but I will get several at 3.9 and a few less at 3.8. I really don't care much with auto-pistols because the chrono and target tell me it does not matter much, and even less when I move up to 20, or 40 grains.

I do load some ammo that I throw charges with the RCBS uniflow, and those are almost always on with one here or there that is +/- 0.1 grains. Out to about 300 yards, it does not matter and even shooting groups and over the chrono, SDs are typically in the low teens and sometimes the high single digits.

I also load some ammo where I throw the charge 0.2 grains light and trickle to be exactly on. SDs are in the mid to high single digits and I can not see a measurable difference in most cases out to about 300 yards. There are so many other variables (T, rH, level of fouling, case volume, bullet consistency, etc.) that have more of an effect than +/- 0.1 grains in a throw of 45 grains.
 
When I'm working up a load, or a new-to-me cartridge I'll weigh every charge and usually get less than .1 variation. After I determine a good powder charge for my rifles, I'll loosen up to .2 variation and my revolver ammo mebbe .3. I know this little variation will prolly make very little difference in performance, but I'm just too OCD to allow any more then that...:cool:
 
As an interesting side note the outdoor range I shoot at is Kelbly’s Rifle Range located in N. Lawrence, Ohio. Kelbly's is home to the annual "Super Shoot" which is a sort of holy grail to many of the bench rest community who shoot 100 & 200 yards. During the super shoot each shooter has their own bench area in a barn for cleaning and hand loading. While I am not a bench rest type like these guys I do enjoy watching them. Walking through the areas during the shoot I have never seen a scale. Not with the 100 & 200 yard shooters. I have heard the longer range guys weigh their charges but not these guys.

Every bench setup has a Harrell's Powder Measure or similar VMD (Volume Meteric Density) powder throw. The shooters can't begin to tell you their charge weights but know exactly how to set the volume on their powder throw micrometers. I have never seen an actual scale out there. Granted the powder throws they use are top of the line but they rely solely on volume rather than measuring a charge weight. Interesting group to watch. I hear the long range bench rest shooters all use scales and weigh their charges.

Ron
 
I hand load ~ 65 cartridges and have overload ~ 38 of them to see what happens.

The effect of a change of 1 gr of powder in 70 in a 7mmRemMag is almost down in the noise.

The effect of a change of 1 gr of powder in 5 in a 32 S&W long can be dramatic.
 
For plinking ammo I don't worry about a .2 grain variation in most handgun cartridges. For example, in 45 colt I try to throw 8.8 grains of unique under a 240gr SWC, but I don't sweat it if some charges go as high a 9.0 grains as I am still well under maximum.

It only can be an issue with very light charges, Max charges, and/or very small cartridge cases.
 
Now Ron, all we gotta do is convince all the reloading manual publishers/testers to publish load data in volume, not weight, then I can trash 11 manuals, get rid on 4 balance beam scales, and one digital scale, dispose of 2 rotary drum powder measures, 3 "fixed charge" powder measures and mebbe 40 dippers. More room in my shop...

I understand that many of the "ultra accuracy" boys use volume measurements for powder charges, but the whole reloading industry is based on charge weight for powders... :rolleyes:
 
I use a Lee balance beam scale. For pistol or .223 "blasting ammo" I'll drop 7 to 10 powder charges and weigh them each for consistency. If everything looks good I start reloading. Trying for + - 0.1 grain on pistol, 0.2 to 0.3 on rifle. Never really double checking at any point during a run of reloads, but maybe I should. For serious target shooting in rifle calibers, I weigh each charge individually, using a scoop on the light side, then trickle until correct, before dumping in the case. This is time consuming, but the reward on the target seems worth it.
 
All dependsbon what Im loading. Bulk/plinking 223 or 9mm I just run what the powder measure throws, haven't had any issues that way. As I get unto my bolt guns or my varmit gun I throw a lighter than wanted charge and then trickle onto the scale. Good results that way.
 
I use a couple of digital scales (lyman micro touch and frankford arsenal platinum), with my Lee phenolic beam scale on hand as a fallback in case the two digital scales give me inconsistent readings.

Lately I've been throwing charges by volume with the Lee auto-drum measure. Once a new drum insert is "broken in," it throws charges pretty consistently within .1gr of my target weight. I consider that just fine for most pistol ammo (9mm and 45ACP for me). I normally stick to the middle of the manual's charge range, load about 10-20 rounds with a weight check on each one to make sure the drum has settled, then check one charge every 5-10 rounds so I can catch the drum "drifting."

For higher pressure or finicky ammo, though (.308, .454, 5.7x28), I make a point of weighing every charge and adjusting the charge by hand to get it exactly where I want.
 
You guys on this forum are great. I've asked other questions before and you always come thru. I decided to go for 0.1 tolerance. I have been using a small electronic scale to measure each load. it was taking a little too long doing it all by hand. I have a Lee Pro Auto disk Measure on my Classic press that was never real accurate using Unique for my handguns but good enough. A little experimentation this morning found that with the H322 it is normally off just 0.1. I'm dropping the charge into a 357 case and checking each one on the scale before I load it into a good .223 case. Off 0.2 about every tenth time so it's easy to correct. This is much faster than dribbling it out by hand. It's not perfect but I think it will be good enough for now in my 100 yd High Power matches, I hope. Thank you for all the advice.

ps: Mike I also have that Lee beam scale, it is accurate but it is so slow that it now just sits on a shelf.
 
mikld
Now Ron, all we gotta do is convince all the reloading manual publishers/testers to publish load data in volume, not weight, then I can trash 11 manuals, get rid on 4 balance beam scales, and one digital scale, dispose of 2 rotary drum powder measures, 3 "fixed charge" powder measures and mebbe 40 dippers. More room in my shop...

You could throw all that stuff away and just pour in approximately the right charge.
 
Powder Metering

As has happened before, the question of powder metering always seems to follow on with weight questions, and with good reason. It needs some consideration.

The problem is that you are trying to load cartridges to release the same amount of energy in the same amount of time. This is tricky, because several things affect your actual result.

The idea with weight or volume is that you put the same amount of chemical potential energy into the case each time. Weight has the advantage of being a more consistent measure of potential energy content than volume is, which is why most load data is by weight rather than volume, though it can err up to the equivalent of about 1.5% from load manual values due to variation in moisture content which depends on storage conditions.

Powder does not seem to swell appreciably with moisture content change, so volume has the advantage of being fairly indifferent to humidity, but the disadvantage that powder can pack tighter or looser, depending how carefully you operate your measure, and that bulk density of powder can vary as much as ±6% from lot-to-lot, so you have to check your recorded throw volume settings for each new lot of powder. Some are much more consistent than others.

Then there is packing. Stick powder, in particular, can fall into a case with different stacking arrangements of the grains of powder. Spherical propellants pack much less, because spheres tend to stack the same way each time. Stick powder packing affects the ignition and practical burn rate of the charge. Two identical weight charges of stick powder can perform rather differently if one is tightly packed and the other is not. If dispensed by volume, however, the right stick powder in the right cartridge can actually self-compensate for the energy content error volumetric dispensing produces. That is, if there is an extra two percent of powder in a charge occupying the same volume as a 2% lighter charge due to tighter packing, it can tend to burn just enough slower that the bullet to winds up having the same point of impact.

Hatcher described an example he found developing a load for National Match ammunition one year (1920's; I suspect 1929 and comparing that year's IMR1185 and 1186, but Hatcher didn't say). He had two stick powders with burn rates he said were close to that of the more modern IMR4320. One had a short stick grain that the arsenal loading equipment metered (volumetrically) to a precision of 0.6 grains variation (±0.3 grains). The other had a long stick the equipment could only meter to a precision of 1.7 grains (± 0.65 grains) variation. Nonetheless, the cartridges loaded with that more widely varying charge of long grain powder proved consistently more accurate and Hatcher reported several records were broken with it at the National Matches that year.

IMR1185 had the same grain dimensions IMR4895 does today. IMR1186 had the same grain dimensions IMR4064 does today. So if I suspect the year correctly, the way IMR4064 packs today would be about the same as then. I note that in later years IMR1185 was used in NM ammo again, so this behavior was apparently affected by lot characteristics. Keep in mind they would have been loading with bulk grade powders that have wider burn rate variation from lot-to-lot than canister grade powders sold to handloaders today have.

drop%20tube%202_zpsq1rb8bl8.jpg


Fastest burn rate<------------------------------------------------------->Slowest burn rate

Another factor is that some powders in some loads have their burn rate less affected by pressure than others in some conditions. For example, from Hodgdon's data, IMR4895 in the 308 pushing a 150 grain bullet produces 61.5 fps change in velocity per grain of powder error over its listed load range. Varget, on the other hand produces only 49.6 fps change in velocity per grain of powder error over its listed load range, making IMR 4895 is 124% more velocity sensitive to charge weight error. But put the same bullet in the 30-06 and it's the Varget that produces more variation 41.8 fps/grain vs. 38.3 fps/grain for IMR4895, or about 9% more charge weight velocity sensitivity in Varget.

That is, by the way, something you may find worth testing in your own gun under your typical use conditions with your particular bullet. Get a mean velocity for ten shots of your maximum load and drop it a grain and then get the mean velocity of another ten shots. Repeat with any other powder you are considering using. Compare the difference. The one with the smallest difference will tend to be the least sensitive to changes in conditions and to charge weight error. Keep in mind this is different for different bullet weights, as well.
 
Unclenick, your last post is very interesting. The tests you suggest in the last paragraph are similar to what I do though I don't test 10 rounds, I think 3 of each is probably enough, though 10 would certainly be more decisive. I have no way to test the FPS though that is not a concern. My only concern is POI and will deviations in my reloading effect the POI. Your input is always appreciated.
 
"Like UncleNick and buck460, I won't tolerate a load combination that has a narrow "sweet spot" between shoots poorly and shoots great. I throw all of my charges for rifle and pistol, including the 600-yard ammo I used to shoot in Highpower. Path of least resistance and all, like Slamfire wrote, when you shoot good scores with ammo that took less time to load, it's follow a process that it more intensive.

As an experiment, load 3 rounds at load X/, 3 rounds at X-.1 and 3 at X+.1 (weighed and trickled). Then load 9 rounds at X as thrown charges. Now go shoot them all over a chronograph and for a group. If they don't all go to the same POI and have a similar extreme velocity spread, I'd be very surprised."



Same here. For confirmation of my highpower loads, I make up ten rounds. Half are heavy by 0.3grs and half are light by 0.3grs. I shoot them all into the same target. If it prints pretty well, we're good to go.

I see zero value in knowing what the best theoretical performance might be. It's infinitely more useful in my mind to know that the worst case is still plenty adequate.
 
I hand load ~ 65 cartridges and have overload ~ 38 of them to see what happens.

The effect of a change of 1 gr of powder in 70 in a 7mmRemMag is almost down in the noise.

The effect of a change of 1 gr of powder in 5 in a 32 S&W long can be dramatic.

Exactly the point I was trying to make. And I'll add:

The effect of a change of 1 gr of powder in 1 in a 25acp can be disasterous.
:D
 
I'm convinced that volume not weight is more important. I shot benchrest for many years and never had any idea what my charge weighed. All my charges were metered in a B&M drop tube. These charges were consistent by volume not weight. You can't shoot a 5 shot group and determine how successful that load was. There are too many variables especially wind.
 
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