How about brand new Webley .455's
- Thread starter garyhan
- Start date
Jim Watson
New member
50 years ago, we were complaining that castings and stampings were ruining guns. Oh, yeah, "powder metal," too.
Startup from Square One would take serious capitalization.
To get that, market indicators would have to strongly support (justify) the investment.
There is insufficient market to justify re-intro in the UK.
The only possible market that could support re-intro of this type of gun would be the US.
On the world scene, the old breaktop Webley is long obsolete in military and police use, and with most nations restricting private ownership, the Webley would be a hard sell in any serious numbers.
Not to sound elitist, but US-made revolvers from Ruger and S&W are infinitely more practical & substantially cheaper.
In the US, while there is a following, it's questionable if there's a big enough following.
A new Webley would have to be crafted well enough to justify its cost, and a well-crafted Webley would have to be fairly expensive, even with cast & MIM parts.
The strength would be, as it always has, a limiting factor to at least some degree.
The caliber would be problematic, if restricted to .455.
That caliber is not (nor would it be simply by bringing back a new gun chambered for it) either widely available or inexpensive.
The gun would be a niche gun, appealing primarily to history buffs, collectors (to a much lesser degree than with an original), and those who like curiosities.
Classic though it is, the Webley was never a standout in accuracy, and had a heavy DA trigger.
If done well, it would sell, but in limited numbers, and for a high price.
If done cheaply, even more limited sales.
I like the gun, had two years ago, was sorry to see Webley stop producing "real" revolvers.
But, they have a propensity to loosen hinges & wear the fit where the topstrap meets the frame, and while the stirrup latch may be replaceable, the topstrap isn't.
Smith & Wesson recognized that frame "join" as a wear point in their centerfire breaktops and made both sections replaceable parts.
The success of such a project would be dependent on sufficient startup capital, decent quality, low enough price-point, and a different caliber, I'd think.
If it could be chambered for the .45 ACP, it'd have a chance here in the US.
If left in a hard to find & expensive niche caliber that would have no appeal to the greatest potential market segment, that'd hurt it severely.
If it'd run in excess of $1000, that'll hurt it.
If it'd be cast, it'd eliminate a few prospective buyers, but could be survivable.
If it'd use a number of MIMs & price out at $1500+, in .455, I don't see it selling enough units to bother with, or to stick around.
I would not mind owning a PROPERLY-DONE new Webley, but I'd have no interest in spending $2000 for a MIM version in a caliber I'd have to chase down or buy additional brass & dies for to reload.
Denis
To get that, market indicators would have to strongly support (justify) the investment.
There is insufficient market to justify re-intro in the UK.
The only possible market that could support re-intro of this type of gun would be the US.
On the world scene, the old breaktop Webley is long obsolete in military and police use, and with most nations restricting private ownership, the Webley would be a hard sell in any serious numbers.
Not to sound elitist, but US-made revolvers from Ruger and S&W are infinitely more practical & substantially cheaper.
In the US, while there is a following, it's questionable if there's a big enough following.
A new Webley would have to be crafted well enough to justify its cost, and a well-crafted Webley would have to be fairly expensive, even with cast & MIM parts.
The strength would be, as it always has, a limiting factor to at least some degree.
The caliber would be problematic, if restricted to .455.
That caliber is not (nor would it be simply by bringing back a new gun chambered for it) either widely available or inexpensive.
The gun would be a niche gun, appealing primarily to history buffs, collectors (to a much lesser degree than with an original), and those who like curiosities.
Classic though it is, the Webley was never a standout in accuracy, and had a heavy DA trigger.
If done well, it would sell, but in limited numbers, and for a high price.
If done cheaply, even more limited sales.
I like the gun, had two years ago, was sorry to see Webley stop producing "real" revolvers.
But, they have a propensity to loosen hinges & wear the fit where the topstrap meets the frame, and while the stirrup latch may be replaceable, the topstrap isn't.
Smith & Wesson recognized that frame "join" as a wear point in their centerfire breaktops and made both sections replaceable parts.
The success of such a project would be dependent on sufficient startup capital, decent quality, low enough price-point, and a different caliber, I'd think.
If it could be chambered for the .45 ACP, it'd have a chance here in the US.
If left in a hard to find & expensive niche caliber that would have no appeal to the greatest potential market segment, that'd hurt it severely.
If it'd run in excess of $1000, that'll hurt it.
If it'd be cast, it'd eliminate a few prospective buyers, but could be survivable.
If it'd use a number of MIMs & price out at $1500+, in .455, I don't see it selling enough units to bother with, or to stick around.
I would not mind owning a PROPERLY-DONE new Webley, but I'd have no interest in spending $2000 for a MIM version in a caliber I'd have to chase down or buy additional brass & dies for to reload.
Denis
kilimanjaro
New member
The great American Gun Market will readily absorb all tne new Webley's they can make.
Model12Win
Moderator
If that Pakistani outfit can release a Webley Fosbery eight shooter in .38 special, I'll be all over it. Make it take S&W moon clips and I might buy two of them. Sounds like it could be a great home defense piece.
Last edited:
Of course not. BUT then, who does? Still, these things can, and do happen, despite the best intentions of the "name" company.
Dornhaus & Dixon didn't want their gun to be a failure and a scandal /scam. They actually made a decent gun. But they chose to rely on someone else for magazines, and that someone didn't cut it.
One of the Auto Mag ventures failed, (according to rumor) because of criminal embezzlement inside the company.
Once upon a time, S&W advertised that everything in their guns was made in their factory, if I remember right. (its been a LONG time,
)If Webley contracts out production of the proposed gun, (or any major part) and their subcontractor fails, Webley is not at fault. BUT, they would still be responsible.
lee n. field
New member
And they have experience with actually making things.
g.willikers
New member
Thanks, garyhan, for the info about the bbgun version.
That just might satisfy.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Webley_MKVI_CO2_BB_Revolver/3560
That just might satisfy.
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Webley_MKVI_CO2_BB_Revolver/3560
I don't believe anybody left at the current Webley has any experience building cartridge guns at all.
This could quite easily become a Merwin Hulbert repeat, in the sense of over-estimating the complexity of the project & not having sufficient capital to actually float it.
Denis
This could quite easily become a Merwin Hulbert repeat, in the sense of over-estimating the complexity of the project & not having sufficient capital to actually float it.
Denis
As previously mentioned, production would be outsourced, and I suspect Webley would want decent quality in a gun with their name on it. Sending money to a company around since the 1790's is a bit different than sending it to someone who suddenly decides to build Merwin&Hulberts, Bren Ten's, etc. Even those who invested in the Merwin and Hulbert affair did eventually get their money back. At worst, I'll be minus $100 bucks for a few years. That is not a disaster to me. At best, I will end up with a low numbered and specially marked version of a super cool gun.
gary
gary
As MK VII said- Webley in name only & not the same company that's been around since the 1700s. 
Do your deposit if you want, makes no difference to me.
I would just be quite surprised if it came to be.
Regardless of who made it, drawings would have to be created or resurrected, engineering would have to be done, production facilities located or built, capitalization would be extensive, and it'd be just like building a new gun essentially from scratch.
No old machinery or factory left.
If cast, new molds.
If forged, a forging house would need to be selected.
If CAD/CAM or CNC, those pathways & facilities would have to be created & contracted with.
If built in the UK, I'd expect substantial difficulties in governmental red tape.
A distribution network would have to be established.
Customs processes dealt with.
Couldn't be cheap, no matter how it'd be done, at any decent quality level.
I would sorta like a new QUALITY-MADE large-frame Webley, but I wouldn't spend a couple grand on it & I wouldn't buy one in .455.
The design offers a heavy DA trigger, nothing exceptional in accuracy, mediocre sights, power limitations, and not much practical appeal. A niche gun.
Just me, follow your own inclinations.
Denis
Do your deposit if you want, makes no difference to me.
I would just be quite surprised if it came to be.
Regardless of who made it, drawings would have to be created or resurrected, engineering would have to be done, production facilities located or built, capitalization would be extensive, and it'd be just like building a new gun essentially from scratch.
No old machinery or factory left.
If cast, new molds.
If forged, a forging house would need to be selected.
If CAD/CAM or CNC, those pathways & facilities would have to be created & contracted with.
If built in the UK, I'd expect substantial difficulties in governmental red tape.
A distribution network would have to be established.
Customs processes dealt with.
Couldn't be cheap, no matter how it'd be done, at any decent quality level.
I would sorta like a new QUALITY-MADE large-frame Webley, but I wouldn't spend a couple grand on it & I wouldn't buy one in .455.
The design offers a heavy DA trigger, nothing exceptional in accuracy, mediocre sights, power limitations, and not much practical appeal. A niche gun.
Just me, follow your own inclinations.
Denis
The Webley is a niche gun, obviously, and not something that is going to take over the general market. It's not a superior revolver in any real sense of the word.
Even its contemporaries were better (Colt & S&W) guns, stronger, firing more powerful rounds, better triggers, better sights, etc. What the Webley has is its "aura" or "mystique". Its the last military top break big bore revolver.
As a general market item, it's not going to be a success. As a niche item, a limited run collector's piece, I'd be willing to bet they could sell every one they make.
There is this, but I'm not certain it about the machinery. Remember, we are talking about the English here. It's not impossible that the old tooling, jigs, etc., are sitting in storage somewhere, oiled and tended by the grandson of the guy who put them there in the 1920s....
Colt stuck their old machinery on a loading dock and let it rust. But Webley? who knows? We are talking about the British here,
in 1940, desperate for arms to repel the expected Nazi invasion, The Admiralty sent some fellows to the Dover coast to look for good places to put railroad guns (battleship guns), and was desperately looking for some of those guns to put in place (without a great deal of hope of actually finding any). And it would take months, at the minimum, to have any made.
The team found some good spots for the guns. In fact, they found those good spots already prepared for the big guns. And, backtracking, they found a pair of railroad guns (12" I think, maybe 14"), stored in tunnels, tended by a small detachment of caretakers, who had been oiling and doing maint on them since 1918! until this "discovery", the govt had no idea they were there!
SO, maybe Webley has a hole card to give them a leg up making the MK VII again?
I've got this, its a 1917, and I really like it a lot. But, considering that I paid $125 for the gun when I got it, and a decade or so later, $40 for the web gear, I won't be paying $1000 for one made next year, or the year after. Not even remotely worth the money to me.
Even its contemporaries were better (Colt & S&W) guns, stronger, firing more powerful rounds, better triggers, better sights, etc. What the Webley has is its "aura" or "mystique". Its the last military top break big bore revolver.
As a general market item, it's not going to be a success. As a niche item, a limited run collector's piece, I'd be willing to bet they could sell every one they make.
There is this, but I'm not certain it about the machinery. Remember, we are talking about the English here. It's not impossible that the old tooling, jigs, etc., are sitting in storage somewhere, oiled and tended by the grandson of the guy who put them there in the 1920s....
Colt stuck their old machinery on a loading dock and let it rust. But Webley? who knows? We are talking about the British here,
in 1940, desperate for arms to repel the expected Nazi invasion, The Admiralty sent some fellows to the Dover coast to look for good places to put railroad guns (battleship guns), and was desperately looking for some of those guns to put in place (without a great deal of hope of actually finding any). And it would take months, at the minimum, to have any made.
The team found some good spots for the guns. In fact, they found those good spots already prepared for the big guns. And, backtracking, they found a pair of railroad guns (12" I think, maybe 14"), stored in tunnels, tended by a small detachment of caretakers, who had been oiling and doing maint on them since 1918! until this "discovery", the govt had no idea they were there!
SO, maybe Webley has a hole card to give them a leg up making the MK VII again?
I've got this, its a 1917, and I really like it a lot. But, considering that I paid $125 for the gun when I got it, and a decade or so later, $40 for the web gear, I won't be paying $1000 for one made next year, or the year after. Not even remotely worth the money to me.
The following information was in response to a inquiry by josquin of the Canadian Gun Nuts forum. It is from Roger P Williams, director of Webley and Scott. The first line refers to re tooling lost machinery "You are right, and their are no excuses except to say it is difficult to pick up from one's own errors. The re-starting of production of the Webley MK VI will allow us to offer spares. Do encourage people to sign up....If we cannot get it under $1000, we may not sell enough revolvers to make it a profitable excercise. Ideally $800 dollars is the price that fits, but we are still working on our projected costs and how to distribute it. 1000 signatures will assist....''
I will be interested in seeing how many negative spins the cynics will put on this.
gary
I will be interested in seeing how many negative spins the cynics will put on this.
gary
Model12Win
Moderator
If they start churning out new Webleys, will the ammo chain follow? For those who don't/can't reload, where will they find .455 ammo? Would someone start producing it again?