House to House searches in Iowa for prison escapees

I think that most LEO workers hope and rely that the average "joe/jane" don't have a clue about their rights.

I agree, if they state that it's voluntary (and my house is not a sty at the moment :o ) I have no problems with them searching.

I was just wondering if they did try the Obstruction deal if they could make it stick and then terrorize you in the process (kicking down the door).

With so many laws around, federal, state, county and city, I honestly don't know what is right any longer or what my Rights are any longer.

Wayne
 
If the escapee enters into my home illegally, I believe I am properly equipped to deal with him, same as any other intruder. If he suddenly pops up out of my crawl space to sodomize me, all the better. I'll notify the police to come pick up their little limp problem once I have secured my blessings of liberty. Prison escapees bleed and drop like anyone else. They are not superhuman.

There are too many people without the means or the will to protect their homes in this country. It's not really about rights if you ask me. If escapees are hiding in your neighborhood, then you need to take a long look in the mirror.

But I guess if you don't want to protect yourself, you may as well let a bunch of fellows in to ramble about messing the place up and "securing" it. :rolleyes:

What I wonder is if the police would have a problem with me maintaining control of my shotgun while they search. If not....if they don't trust me..........then why should I trust them?
 
sendec said:
And if you are asked for consent to search you are free to decline. And if said escapee is hiding in the crawlspace under your house unbeknowst to you, you can take comfort in the fact that you exercised your rights, while he is sodomizing you.
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BWAAAHHAHAHAHAHA! :rolleyes:


Okay, sendec, you win. Send in your stormtroopers to save me from the guy that your stormtroopers couldn't manage to keep in custody. I'm out of vaseline and am not therefore ready to be sodomized. "Police! Please save me! I can't do it myself!" :barf:


-blackmind
 
sendec said:
In a case where intel was developed that a suspect's girlfriend had assisted in his escaped we got a telephonic warrant for her place, she refused entry and went to jail for interference. We stayed at her place until eventually the guy came wandering up the street lookin' for love in all the wrong places

Hey, if you dont want us to clear your place for you, that's your call.
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Can't manage to stay with the subject, hmm? We're talking about a case where there IS NO WARRANT. This woman refused entry to cops who had a warrant, so she got arrested. (Now, "telephonic warrant" I don't understand. Does that mean the cops had not a goddamned thing to wave in her face to prove that a judge had issued a warrant? If that's the case, she should not have been arrested for refusing a "we say so 'warrant.' ")

What's this you're saying about "it's our call" if we don't want you to clear our place for us? If it's a warrant issue, then there's no debate -- the cops have the right to "clear the place."

But if they're gonna go house-to-house, by god they'd better have a warrant issued for each house they demand to enter! :mad:


-blackmind
 
Local well-known critter was discovered hiding under a ladies bed. Lady barricades the critter inside her bedroom and calls 911.

I get there about the time the critter heaves her keepsake box through the bedroom window, belly-flops into her rosebush, extricates himself and hauls tail for the local Disadvantaged Housing, with me breathing down his neck.

This is Hot Pursuit.

Critter dives through a random door, leaps the living room couch, jukes through the kitchen, ricochets off various junk in the garage, out the back door and over the backyard fence with me matching him step for step.

Other than yelping, "Sheriff's Office!" every second step on the way through the house, I didn't pause to get permission to do this.

This is part of Hot Pursuit (sometimes called Close Pursuit) and is legal.

However, Critter gained about 15 feet on me when he cannonballed into a drainage ditch and I lost the ground trying to pick my way down.

With this added breathing room, Critter swarmed up the wall surrounding the Projects and vaulted inside, by the time I got to the top of the wall, Critter had ducked in between some houses and was gone.

Now, the rules changed. It ain't Hot Pursuit no more.

DPS blocked the roads into and out of Housing, and we glanced through every yard, knocked on each door, explained why we were there and asked if we could take a quick peek inside each house.

This being the Projects, half the time the folks inside said, "Hell, no."

Guys-n-gals, this is part of being a cop. It happens, deal with it.

We asked them to check on any children inside the house, and to call us if they saw him, then went to the next house.

This is the procedure, folks.

Luckily, someone found muddy/bloody footie-prints on a front step. We asked the current residents if we could come inside and look for the person who had left said prints. They said, "No."

We said, "Okay", then we sat on the hoods of our cars in the public street and in the public alley, and waited for the warrant to be processed, then went in and dragged him out from a closet.

If we hadn't found the footprints and used them as the basis for a search warrant, there ain't No Way we'd have barged into any houses without permission (unless someone put a hairy eyeball on the critter through an uncurtained window, and trust me, that ain't gonna happen in the flats).

Iowa DOC and locals are going to have to follow the same rules.

LawDog
 
God, I LOVE this guy.
Who would argue with THAT balance of BoR vs Need to Apprehend story.

No idea if they're bustin' doors over this escape....though, I highly expect not. But, as LawDog points up, Police Tactics balanced by Bill-O-Rights Guarantees demand explanation and a co-operative citizenry. Generally both sides do the right thing and we have no reason to believe they haven't in this latest case.

Rich
 
Lawdog

Lucibella

I've learned more from those two in the last 5 years than I did from anyone else in the previous 50.

Thanks guys.
 
Nope, not bustin in doors, but, watching the video's of this "hot pursuit" showing LEO's going door to door, guns drawn. That, is just not right, IMO. Maybe its the way its done now, but somehow, I dont think that makes it right.
 
And now that we've settled the hot pursuit and warrant issues (Thanks, LawDog), what's up with the drawn guns?
If I have a target, I draw my gun. If I don't, it stays in the holster. And, if I don't have a target, but I think I'm going to have one very shortly, I'll get a firing grip while it's in the holster.
 
Were the drawn guns pistols or rifles?

I ask, because I had someone complain about me and a drawn gun once. When the Sheriff asked, it turned out I was carrying a Mossberg 590, which is damned difficult to "un"-draw, if I do say so myself.

For pistols? Both of the escapees are convicted murderers. They are killers with no particular reason to go back to the Big House and several reasons to not want to go back.

Action beats reaction. Every officer around here knows that if I get to initiate action within 21 feet of them while their pistol is holstered, they're going to lose. In training, losing means you get red magic marker ink all over you. When the opponent is a convicted murderer, the red stuff probably won't be ink.

If I had reason to believe that one or both critters was in a location -- be it a house, apartment building, the Projects, or such-like -- I would tend to have a 12 gauge ready. If no long-gun was available, I would have my pistol either alongside my leg, or in position SUL while clearing the area.

Now, once the location was cleared, I would return my pistol to it's holster.

LawDog
 
I have to say that if police were doing a house to house search in my neighborhood with pistols drawn, I would feel a greater threat from a LEO negligent discharge than the escapees.

Shotguns? Fine. I don't get the same heebie jeebies. I can't explain why not.

This situation is arguably one of the best reasons to put the shotguns back in the police cruisers, and line the ARs up in a rack in the station house.
 
Thanks LawDog, that answers my initial question that I had with my first post to this thread.

As for the guns being drawn, I can understand that. When you go up and knock on the doors and they open, one doesn't know what may, or may not come out of it.

And if I may use this thread to say:

Thank you LawDog and Capt. Charlie, two LEO's that have shown us, the non-LEO members, what law enforcement does and can do without trying to be condensending(sp) to the non-LEO members. I have learned a lot from both of you.

Wayne

*I hope that came out right, just got up so my head is still fuzzy.
 
Drawn pistols, while going door to door searching.
When they knock on the door, they expect a citizen to answer it. If they had good reason to expect that one of their escapees was in a particular house, they wouldn't be going door to door searching, they'd get a warrant for the house in question.
I'm with XavierBreath, I'd worry more about an ND than the escapees. If I'm minding my own business, get up to answer a knock on the door, and there's half a dozen men with guns in their hands, I'm going to be a little ticked off. Even if they have badges.
I don't see this as analogous to searching an area where the criminals are known to be hiding.
I don't think the reaction time is much different starting with gun in hand along the side of the leg, vs. starting in holster, firing grip on the weapon, retention devices disengaged. However, with the gun in the holster, you have the option to use the strong hand without waving the gun around, or stopping to re-holster.
 
I don't think the reaction time is much different starting with gun in hand along the side of the leg, vs. starting in holster, firing grip on the weapon, retention devices disengaged.
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Easy way to check: grab a Red Gun, or better yet an AirSoft, a red magic Marker and a some friends and try it.

Measure out 20 feet, and stand at one end with a holstered pistol. Say: "Excuse me sir, my name is Officer ****, and I'm from the **** Police Department. This is Officer **** and we are here because two convicted murderers have escaped from the local prison. May we take a brief look in your house?" Sometime during this speech have one of your friends armed with the red Magic Marker rush from the other side of the 20 feet and you try to tag him with the pistol from the holster before he gets his hands on you.

I generally try to slam the trainee into the gravel before marking him up when I'm the Bad Guy, but it's really up to y'all.

Then try it with the pistol already in your hand, held in SUL, or alongside your leg.

Just for giggles, do it from the other side, you trying to rush and paint your buddy while he's in the middle of the speech.

LawDog
 
If you are at my door with guns drawn, at about "sir" the door will be slammed in your face.
You don't need to do a Tueller drill exercise to test my theory, you just need to do a reaction time comparson. Start with the gun alongside your leg, and at the buzzer, fire 1 aimed shot. Repeat starting with the hand on the holstered handgun. Compare times. I'll be at the range Tuesday, I'll post times.
If you are really concerned about closing within Tueller distance, then 5 officers can stand 15 yards from the door in a semicircle, and the 6th can ring the doorbell. After he rings it, he quickly runs back to the semicircle. I'd rather be shouted at from 15 yards away, then surprised by a bunch of nervous men on my porch with guns drawn.
 
10 shots each technique. Total time for starting with gun dangling by leg was 0.27 seconds higher than the total time starting with firing grip in holster. I'm not sure a difference of 27 thousandths of a second is significant; I'd call it a draw... QED. YMMV.
 
Save us, officer, SAVE US!!!

So an LEO, showing up at my house, weapons drawn, dogs at the ready, with no information at all that an escapee may or may not be there is reasonable. I dont think so.
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+1. Don't the police think that if the thug was in your house that you'd tell them so?? What if no one is home - do they bash in the door so they can "secure" the home??
So, shall every citizen, in every city now be subject to house searches in the event the police suspect there may be "armed and dangerous felons" in the general area?
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There are felons everywhere, convicted and not yet convicted; we should have the police go door to door searching through our closets for them twice a day and three times a day on Saturday and Sunday. It's the only way we can really be safe!!

BAA-AAAA-AAA, BAAA-AAA-AAA, BAAA-AAAA!!!:barf: :barf:

Jeeeeeeeeeeezuz, grow a pair, lock and load, and look out for yourself!!! Maybe you've heard of it - it's called being a man.
 
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