House to House searches in Iowa for prison escapees

W

Wildcard

Moderator
Its on Fox right now, with video. Police are going house to house, searching, with guns out and dogs. And people are letting them enter their houses. This is insane.

I will post a link as soon as it becomes available on Fox's web site.
 
If you have nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind the search... :rolleyes: :barf:

Actually, searching without a warrant while in "hot pursuit" is legal in many jurisdictions.
 
Not necessarily "insane". Nor is it a suspension of the 4th amendment.

The bill of rights only says that people are free in the homes against "unreasonable" searches (ie, those without a warrant or Prob Cause). There have been many many many exceptions created to the requirement of a warrant.

One of which is exigent circumstances. Exigent circumstances could encompass searching for very dangerous and violent escaped prisoners. In this case it could look like a combination of the hot pursuit and exigent circumstances exceptions all rolled up in a public protections and security wrapper.

Also, people are free to allow the police into their homes if requested.

To me, the only insane part of all of this is that the State screwed up enough to give these guys the ability to escape.
 
I can see it coming:

People who will bloviate for hours about how they are prepared for a home invasion or how to clear a house or what to do when pirates board will now complain when the pros come in and do it for them.
 
So an LEO, showing up at my house, weapons drawn, dogs at the ready, with no information at all that an escapee may or may not be there is reasonable. I dont think so.
 
And if you are asked for consent to search you are free to decline. And if said escapee is hiding in the crawlspace under your house unbeknowst to you, you can take comfort in the fact that you exercised your rights, while he is sodomizing you.
 
searching without a warrant while in "hot pursuit" is legal in many jurisdictions.
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Perxactly how America gets dumbed down.....by using terms of art out of context.

"Hot Pursuit" generally requires knowledge of the suspect's position and direction and has traditionally required them to be pretty much in sight. These pukes escaped yesterday. Unless I've missed some recent developments, that is not "hot pursuit"....it's a manhunt.

"Yesterday's" legal definition:
Hot Pursuit:
An exception to the general rule that a police officer needs an arrest warrant before he can enter a home to make an arrest. If a felony has just occurred and an officer has chased a suspect to a private house, the officer can forcefully enter the house in order to prevent the suspect from escaping or hiding or destroying evidence.
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So, shall every citizen, in every city now be subject to house searches in the event the police suspect there may be "armed and dangerous felons" in the general area?
Rich
 
+1 Rich, exactly what I was talking about

Sendec, I email me your address, I have a warrant disk from germany to send you, might make your day.
 
Actually, these guys escaped around 6 p.m. Monday, so "Hot Pursuit" definitely doesn't apply.

Thanks for the info, Rich. :) From the initial post, I had no idea this was a days-old story.
 
And if said escapee is hiding in the crawlspace under your house unbeknowst to you, you can take comfort in the fact that you exercised your rights, while he is sodomizing you.
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My, how your thoughts wander. :rolleyes:
Many of us don't give in to this kind of fear. Many of us kinda feel we can have our rights and relative safety at the same time.

Know why? Because maybe we don't live in that town but a nearby one. Maybe all our Police have been called in, over there, to help with a house to house search. Maybe the potential "sodomizer" is under my porch right now.

Oh, my...we need more Police...or at least some personal responsibility.
Rich
 
Here is what Fox has so far. They are showing footage, every half hour and reporting of House to House searches for them. Hot Pursuit my arse.:barf:

Iowa Continues Hunt for Escaped Convicts

Wednesday, November 16, 2005

FORT MADISON, Iowa — The search for two inmates who escaped from the Iowa State Penitentiary is continuing as police say one of the men could still be hiding in town.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175705,00.html
 
Don't be glib, sendec. And do not twist facts. Final warning.

Your statement obligates you to provide "Source Please". What new info has come to light, re-ignighting this "Hot Pursuit"?
Rich
 
My question is this. If they showed up at your home and demanded entry (or just politely asked to search) and you said no, will they arrest you for obstruction of justice? Well they break down your door, and do they have such "rights" without a warrent because it's "hot (well warm) pursuit"?

Wayne
 
Wayne-
I've no problem, if they're going house to house, explaining the situation and the homeowner's right to refuse, and then asking permission to search.

Nor do I have a problem if, in a hot pursuit, they bust in first and explain later.

But, the very fact that they ARE going house to house demonstrates that this is NOT a Hot Pursuit case. (Hot Pursuit basically requires that the police are exercising proper judgment that, under the circumstances, any reasonable Judge would have issued a warrant and that there was no time to obtain same.)

As to going house to house in the first place, I see this in Florida about 4X every year.

"Sir, you'll have to leave. It's a mandatory evacuation."
"Nope, I'm staying."
"Sir, it's MANDATORY. The Governor has declared a State of Emergency."
"Nope, I'm staying."
"Well, if there's a problem here, we want you to know that you're on your own."
"Yup, I know. Thanks".

Fact is, Officer Friendly's last statement tells the real truth, not his first two.

This from my own local guys...the best cops on the planet. Last time my household refused to leave, we turned out to be the aftermath shelter for the local gendarmes, cooking hot meals and offering showers, water, ice and coffee for 5 days. Why? We take responsibility for our lives.

Soooooo-
If they're doing house-to-houses and not making it clear that this is voluntary, I'd have a very REAL problem with it....specifically because the occupant does not have enough info to determine if it is a Hot Pursuit issue.
Rich
 
My answer is this: it depends.

In a case where intel was developed that a suspect's girlfriend had assisted in his escaped we got a telephonic warrant for her place, she refused entry and went to jail for interference. We stayed at her place until eventually the guy came wandering up the street lookin' for love in all the wrong places

Hey, if you dont want us to clear your place for you, that's your call.

But be aware that we are also concerned about things like hostage situations in which escapee breaks into home, takes hostage, and threatens to kill wife when husband answers the door for the police. So if you say no to a request for permission to search, and you are all sweaty and breathing shallowly and wont make eye contact, I am gonna get concerned
 
In a case where intel was developed that a suspect's girlfriend had assisted in his escaped we got a telephonic warrant for her place, she refused entry and went to jail for interference.
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Not the same thing as the current issue. In THAT case the cops had a warrant and she refused to obey it. That's obstruction of justice and interfereing with a PO. In THIS case, there's no warrant so there can't be any obstruction issue by refusing to let the cops into your home. Different circumstances with no relationship. (of course I also have an issue with the "telephonic" part of the warrant but that's a subject for a different thread.)

But be aware that we are also concerned about things like hostage situations in which escapee breaks into home, takes hostage, and threatens to kill wife when husband answers the door for the police. So if you say no to a request for permission to search, and you are all sweaty and breathing shallowly and wont make eye contact, I am gonna get concerned
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Be concerned all you want, BUT it won't get you a warrant to enter the home without more evidence that the BG is actually inside. If you go in without the warrant and no additional evidence you're violating the law and a badge won't protect you. Heavy breathing and sweating isn't sufficient cause to exercise any of the 4th amendment exceptions either.

If the home is unoccupied when the cops come calling, they may be able to use one of the exceptions to do a quick reconnoiter to ensure the security of the home given the situation and circumstances based upon proveable intellegence or evidence. Otherwise all they can do is ask and move on if refused.
 
So if you say no to a request for permission to search, and you are all sweaty and breathing shallowly and wont make eye contact
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I am a little embarrased, working out to Richard Simmons Sweatin' to the Oldies and all.
 
Sendec-
I was hoping you wouldn't attempt to derail this thread with slightly off topic, poorly researched, edge of the envelope obfuscation. But then, sometimes, I'm a hopeless optimist.
Rich
 
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