Hot blueing or parkerize

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blueram61

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I am building a rifle using a Mauser action off a 1942 German rifle and a new 20" barrel. Can anyone recommend a gunsmith who does hot blueing or parkerizing and which you would recommend between blueing or parkerizing? The rifle is for hunting and for my use only. The stock is American walnut and glassed already I am at the point I need the barrel done everything including a timney trigger is fitted and ready for assembly
 
Because of stringent safety rules, few local gun shops do hot tank bluing any more, so more than likely you (or your gunsmith) would have to ship the rifle off for a blue job. Parkerizing can be a DIY job if one has or can make a suitable tank, but all things considered your best bet might be one of the modern paints that are baked on and nearly indestructible, in addition to being more resistant to moisture and rusting than either Parkerizing or bluing.

Something like cold blue would be the worst choice; it is neither durable nor rust resistant since it doesn't hold oil.

Jim
 
I guess parkerizing is more durable, if it is a cabinet gun. No moving parts hold up well. If it is kept in a dry area it does seem to need less maintenance than bluing.
 
You need to have the receiver and barrel blued together so it will match, I will be bluing in a week or so if you want to ship.
 
Given that it's not a resto, and a hunting rifle that will be subject to those conditions, suggest you consider getting a local shop (I'm sure you have one) to Cerakote for you.

It's far more durable, and will protect the firearm better than hot blue, parking, or anything else for that matter. Those finishes are fine where a "period correct" or "original" finish is desired. Beyond that, they're dinosaurs in the camp of protective coatings for firearms.

Go ahead- flame suit on- but back it up...:D

http://www.cerakoteguncoatings.com/testing/
 
No flames from here. For a long time I was highly skeptical about Cerrokote and other "paints" for guns, equating them to the black enamel used on some WWII guns that commonly scratched, chipped, and cracked. But I have now seen a number of guns finished that way that have held up well and look very good. Some even mimic a good quality blue.

I will still suggest that the work be done by someone who has had some experience rather than attempting a DIY job, but that would be true of most gun work.

Jim
 
Hot bluing require lots of hand polishing to be done right. Doesn't rust protect well either. It's basically a colouring on the metal that is oxidized based. As in pre-rusted.
Few local gun shops do hot tank bluing any more because it requires room with no ferrous metals in it that one does not want rusted. Bluing salts get into the air and will cause hoare frost rust on everything ferrous.
Parkerising is a brand name for a finish. The colour comes out in shades of grey, depending on the steel it goes on, with zinc based solution. Black with manganese based solutions, but it requires nothing but all the springs be removed, an empty case in the chamber and a cast bullet lightly tapped into the muzzle. Mind you, it doesn't hurt the barrel if it gets Parked.
Lube-rite is another brand name for black phosphating. It's the same idea as Parkerizing, but black only and seen on stuff like FAL's and most LEO/military sniper rifles. Had my .243 done 35 plus years ago. Still looks like it was done yesterday with minimal maintenance.
 
Both bluing and Parkerizing (the word is a trademark, named for the inventor, hence the capital letter) protect because they retain oil. Given the lack of oil and the wrong circumstances, both will allow rusting of the ferrous metal underneath. Parkerizing is more porous and will retain oil better, plus it comes out as dull and non-reflecting and so is preferred for military weapons.

Jim
 
Never used Cerakote, but years back there was an item marketed as "Gunkote". Same thing but early version? It was also baked on. I still have a shotgun I did the barrel on and the Gunkote really held up well. Only thing I did not like was the build up you got with it. Same with Parkerizing. Hard to beat bluing for tight fits.
 
Never used Cerakote, but years back there was an item marketed as "Gunkote". Same thing but early version? It was also baked on. I still have a shotgun I did the barrel on and the Gunkote really held up well. Only thing I did not like was the build up you got with it. Same with Parkerizing. Hard to beat bluing for tight fits.
Click to expand...

Not the same...
I use both. KG's 2400 Gun Kote was developed for use on military weapons, and first used by the SEALs. It's a one-part, heat cure coating (I believe- but I'm not certain- that it's an epoxy) that's extremely durable.

NIC's Cerakote is a polymer/ceramic coating- two part mix, also heat-cure. I find (and testing shows) that it's more durable than even Gun Kote. I generally use Gun Kote for smaller jobs due to the ease of application (no measuring/mixing required), and Cerakote for entire rifles. The amount of hardener used with Cerakote affects the gloss- so there is some flexibility with the desired finish.

Both are extremely thin and will not hide/fill any surface defects- approximately 1 mil when correctly applied. However, it can interfere with tight tolerance fits, so I mask off muzzle threads, etc. before applying and plug bores and chambers (which needs to be done anyway as blasting is required). Prep is EVERYTHING. Any shortcuts result in an unsatisfactory finish. Failures are due to improper prep- if not thoroughly de-greased (twice- with baking in between) and blasted it's not going to last as it should.

Usually, when you see a price for Cerakote that looks too cheap- run. It's not the cost of the coating, it's the labor for the prep that accounts for its cost.
 
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Personally, depending on the level of wear you anticipate, I have never seen a park job that was as nice as a high end match grade polish and hot bluing. If you have a very nice piece of walnut, deep blue will really set it off. If you care less about that and more about protecting the metal, I would agree with park or cera kote
 
I may have to try this cera kote stuff. I am pretty much done with working on guns(I thought), but still like to tinker. I was re-finishing an old Bear take down recurve bow once. I believe the finish on the magnesium riser was epoxy base. I tried sandblasting, electric sanders, and wire wheels. It just refused to come off easy. I was afraid to apply heat to the magnesium. Some of that stuff is really tough.
 
The main reason few local gunsmiths do hot salt bluing is not the need for good polishing, but the rules laid down by OSHA and state safety and health administrators. The process is highly dangerous, and regulators require emergency showers, filtered ventilators, and other expensive safety precautions.

Some folks who claim to have done hot salt bluing say there is no danger and that they don't see a need for protective clothing or even eye protection. I strongly disagree, having seen what those hot salts can do to the human skin.

One of the oddest incidents involved an experienced gunsmith who did a lot of handgun work, mostly 1911 pistols. He blued magazines by giving them a light polish, then tossing them in the tank, fully assembled. He did that with a Browning High Power magazine, not knowing that the BHP follower is/was aluminum, which bluing salts dissolve. The follower dissolved just as the smith was leaning over the tank, and the spring threw the hot solution in his face. Fortunately, he was wearing goggles, but his face was badly burned and he suffered great pain for a long time.

Jim
 
The scary part to me is that hot bluing salts contain about 2/3 sodium hydroxide (lye.). It plays no part in the bluing chemistry, it's purpose is to raise the boiling point of the nitrate solution to 275 F or so, where the nitrates will promptly form black iron oxide on the steel.

Hot sodium/potassium/ammonium nitrate solution would burn you.
Hot lye will EAT you, more destructive to flesh than acid.
 
That is why I cringe when I read a post that says something like "I do tank bluing and never use a rubber apron or goggles and your warnings are stupid..."

Either folks like that are seriously confused or are claiming expertise they don't have. But if they get others to ignore safety precautions, they are downright dangerous.

Jim
 
We do hot salt bluing at school. It involves rubber aprons, rubber gloves, and full face shields as well as a full ventilation system. We also keep a spray bottle of vinegar in the room. I'm told it neutralizes light contact with the skin. Lots of safety precautions, but even a 20 - 30 minute cycle looks great. Produces a very rich/deep blue-black finish
 
Vinegar works great when you get some molten salts on you- we'd keep a spray bottle in there bluing area.

Before I worked at our shop, one of the employees had an "eruption" in the bluing set up. He'd added salts to the tank, and turned his back, and the tanks erupted- throwing part of the contents of the tank about 4'-5' up the wall- the stain was a clear reminder.

I never got injured doing bluing- a minor burn here or there but that's it.
 
Rust blue is just as good and and safer. The darkest solution I have found is Brownell's. I turned a barrel for an AR dry and did not polish it. It came out dark, dull black. It matched the other parts perfectly. It may be a little more labor intensive, but you can blue parts with solder on them also.
 
Jim, that happened to me, when I was 18. I thought I didn't need gloves, when one day, I accidentally dipped my right ring finger in a hot caustic bath. It was a 3rd degree burn, but luckily, it didn't scar that bad. As soon as it happened, I dunked my finger in the cold water rinse tank, which is probably why it wasn't worse than it was. After that, I wore those thick black rubber gauntlet gloves, that Brownell's still sells.
 
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