Hot .44 specials

C

circa81

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For 3 inch revolvers designed to fire Magnums, how do they handle the recoil, for say a buffalo bore .44 special?
 
For guns designed for the magnums, yes, and what would it be comparable to? A 357 magnum out of 4 inch barrel or something like that?
 
I've been experimenting with various factory .44 magnum loads to try and find one with less recoil. I have found that Blazer is the best. They used to make a 200 grain JHP but now make a 240 grain JHP, both are noticeably lower recoil.

My gun is a 4" Colt Anaconda.
 
Just my opinion,but regardless of the power level,I load rounds for my .44 magnum handgun in 44 magnum brass.

I do not pay much attention to factory loads,as I don't buy them.
So I cannot advise on moderate .44 mag factory loads.

One caution on loading .44 spl loads up to zippy. Colt SAA and clones,Charter bulldogs,the Taurus 5 shot snubbie,etc are all happy with the somewhere around18-19 k psi pressure level for max 44 spl.You would want to be sure no hotrod loads could ever find their way to one of these guns.
 
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

About as hot as I've ever really cared to go was 7.5gr Unique under a 245gr LSWC in a S&W N-Frame (Model 21-4). Recoil of that was fairly comparable to a factory 158gr .357 Magnum from an N-Frame (Model 28-2 4"). I would not recommend that .44 Special loading be used in a small-frame or weaker .44 Spl revolver like a Colt SAA, Charter Arms Bulldog, or five-shot Taurus/Rossi, and I would only shoot it sparingly in a S&W 696.

The hottest .44 Specials I've ever fired were 17.5gr 2400 under a 200gr Hornady XTP also in the same N-Frame. Because the gun in question was a touch lighter than most N-Frames (the box label said 37.5oz), I found the recoil to be just as heavy if not heavier than factory 240gr .44 Magnum ammunition from a S&W N-Frame (629-6 4"). I would not recommend this loading be used in anything but a large-frame revolver and then only very sparingly unless the gun is chambered for .44 Magnum.
 
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The Ruger .44Spec medium frame flattops and New Vaqueros will also handle the 17g 2400 load under 240g bullet using a standard primer just fine (the Keith load). But like you my general load is 7.5g of Unique/Universal (the Skeeter load) under 240g SWC. I do shoot the Skeeter Load out of my 3" Sheriff .44Spec Flattop and recoil isn't that bad. I don't shoot any .357/.38 true magnum loads, so can't compare recoil. My .357/.38 loads are moderate < 1100fps loads for 'target' use. When I need to go up in power, I just go use a bigger caliber. My .44Spec CA Bulldog only gets standard pressure .44Spec loads as it isn't built for warm ammo.

I reload, so have no clue what factory loads are like (other than .22) .
 
I reload, so have no clue what factory loads are like (other than .22) .
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The factory .357 Magnum load I referred to is advertised as a 158gr bullet at 1235fps from a 4" barrel while the .44 Magnum factory load is advertised as a 240gr bullet at 1180fps from a 4" barrel.
 
I've shot 17.5 2400 under a 250 cast swc in my SAA and M-21 as well as a ruger flat top. It aint fun. I prefer a heavy round nose @ between 750fps and 850fps. I load a commercial cast 180 @ a claimed 1000fps in an 18 oz. 396 Mountain Lite. It's even less fun.

Unless someone is giving you a bunch of free .44 spec. brass there is no reason I can see not to load .44 mag. brass to whatever you desire.
 
Unless someone is giving you a bunch of free .44 spec. brass there is no reason I can see not to load .44 mag. brass to whatever you desire.
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I totally agree ... except if you don't reload. Then you have to buy .44Spec ammo to tame the recoil.
 
I have a 3" model 629 S&W .44 mag....( N frame ) / its a nice carry gun - if I'm fly fishing ...but with full power .44 mag ammo ( like 240gr Magtech at 1180 fps ) it can be a beast to shoot .../ but if you went to a .44 spl load like the Buffalo Bore you suggest in 200gr at 1100 fps ... it will probably give you 20% less recoil ...maybe 25% ...

Will the Buffalo Bore .44 spl ...be like shooting a .357 mag in a 4" barrel like in an N frame S&W ...( like the model 27 ) ...No, I don't think so - the N frame S&W in a 4" is easy to shoot in .357 mag ...and not light recoil / but way less muzzle jump than a 3" N frame in .44 mag.

Shooting a .44 spl in a 3" N frame ....might be more like shooting full power .357 mag rounds in a K frame S&W like a model 19 or 66 in a 4" barrel ...
 
I've shot 17.5 2400 under a 250 cast swc in my SAA and M-21 as well as a ruger flat top. It aint fun.
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I agree as even reducing the bullet weight to 200gr as I did still makes for an unpleasant combination. It was, however, a learning experience as I now have no interest in a lightweight .44 Magnum or even one of the "Mountain Guns" with their tapered barrels. For shooting .44 Magnum or even top-end .44 Specials, the extra weight of a 4" or longer heavy barrel is very preferable IMHO.
 
I don't think he's asking about handloads.
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Perhaps not, but the ballistics of some of the handloads we're talking about are awfully close to factory-loaded "hot" .44 Special ammo like Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, and Grizzly.
 
It depends upon the weight of the gun and the load you are shooting.

A S&W 629 3" barrel weight 39.6 oz

A S&W 329PD 4" barrel weight 25.1 oz

Speer Short Barrel .44 magnum loads 200 grain shoot at 100 lower fps than the buffalo Bore Heavy .44 Special 185 grain in my 329PD. I would expect the heavier 629 to be more moderate in recoil for both of these loadings.

As noted above the Blazer 200 grain .44 magnum shot at 850 fps in my 329PD. This is less than either the of the above two loads and was really quite mild in this light weight revolver.

So it will depend upon the weight of the gun you buy as well as the load you use. A .44 magnum load can cover a lot og range, as can a .44 Special. There is certainly overlap. The Buffalo Bore Heavy .44 Special loads are for revolvers in good condition and that includes .44 Special and well as .44 magnum revolvers, as I understand it.

Is it a heavy .44 Special, or a light .44 magnum ? Call it what you want.
 
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I figure the Colt .44 special can take a hot load as that is what Elmer Keith used (after he blew up a .45 Colt SAA doing the very same thing). He reckoned it was the better platform for hot handloads as it had more steel in the cylinder walls than the .45 or the .44-40.
 
If recoil is an issue for you consider Mag-na-porting. My 3" M29 has less felt recoil and muzzle rise than my friend's 7 1/2" Ruger Redhawk with the same ammunition.

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I have never thought that porting does much to reduce recoil. Muzzle flip yes, but recoil not much as the redirection of combustion products is vertical. I doubt I would think a 3" M29 would have less recoil than a Ruger Redhawk with a 7-1/2" barrel. The Redhawk is about 54 oz. The M29 is about 40 oz. I am surpised to hear that the M29 has less recoil with the same loads than a 7-1/2" Redhawk. Is there is something wrong with one, or more, or the revolvers.

What do you think accounts for that less recoil ? Do others get less recoil via a porting operation ?
 
I have never thought that porting does much to reduce recoil. Muzzle flip yes, but recoil not much as the redirection of combustion products is vertical. I doubt I would think a 3" M29 would have less recoil than a Ruger Redhawk with a 7-1/2" barrel. The Redhawk is about 54 oz. The M29 is about 40 oz. I am surpised to hear that the M29 has less recoil with the same loads than a 7-1/2" Redhawk. Is there is something wrong with one, or more, or the revolvers.

What do you think accounts for that less recoil ? Do others get less recoil via a porting operation ?
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I'm no physicist so I have no scientific answer for you. All I can tell you is that, shooting the two guns side by side, both of us had the same impression - the Mag-na-ported 3" S&W was softer and more comfortable shooting than the Ruger. There is nothing wrong with either gun and we shot them with the same ammunition. While that may be difficult for you to accept, it is the way it is. If you're ever out my way I'd be happy to let you try it for yourself.

BTW, I also have a 1 7/8" barrel Mag-na-port custom Charter Arms Bulldog "Backpacker" that weighs exactly 18oz with wood grips. The CCI Blazer 200gr JHP ammo that I felt was too hot for a 3" Rossi M720 that I had some years ago, while not pleasant, is manageable in the Charter Arms. In fact, I had no problem shooting an IDPA BUG match with it a few weeks ago and was almost as fast with it as my custom 9mm S&W 360J. So, I can't tell you why Mag-na-porting works so well, but it does, I'll bet if you called them they could explain the phenomenon to you.
 
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