home defense: what do the professionals use?

[jmr40]

Shotguns only real advantage is that they are cheap. And with "quality" shotguns going up and AR's prices falling that gap is small today. A quality semi shotgun is going to set you back more than most AR's.

Ammo prices. 25 rounds of buckshot is a lot more expensive than 223 ammo

Recoil. A 12 or even 20 ga with loads suitable for personal protection equal or exceed 300 win mag recoil. A 223 has about 1/2 the recoil of a 30-30. Most of us would skoff at the idea of a novice hunter starting with a 300 WM, but I've seen countless guys advise a novice shooter to buy a shotgun for personal protection.

Other than price the shotguns only other advantage is a wide pattern making hits on moving targets easier. At typical HD ranges a shotguns pattern is too small to be any advantage. You have to aim carefully with either. I'd argue the shotgun is best used outdoors at moderate ranges with multiple attackers. It is known as a "Riot Gun" or "Trench Sweeper" for good reason. Those qualities don't make it a good home defense weapon.

Over penetration. Shotguns are more dangerous to folks in the next room.

Weapon size. A 16" barreled AR with a telescoping stock is far smaller and lighter.

A lot of special forces use 9mm sub machine the Heckler & Koch MP5 being a favourite.

A lot of special forces USED to use 9mm sub guns. They are falling from favor with the advent of short barreled suppressed AR's.

Of course I also agree with Kraigwy. A handgun is the first line of defense. Even with its disadvantages the fact that it is on you makes it paramount. If you have time the long gun is secondary.

 

[Theohazard]

A lot of special forces use 9mm sub machine the Heckler & Koch MP5 being a favourite. (Not rifles).

Not as much anymore. A 5.56 carbine offers just too many advantages (and very few disadvantages) over a submachine gun that fires pistol rounds. Submachine guns and shotguns are being used less and less by special forces and law enforcement these days.

Why is it "conventional wisdom" that the shotgun is king of the home?

Others have already answered this question pretty well, but I'd like to add another answer: Myth and misconception. Many people have a complete misunderstanding about shotguns, especially pump shotguns. You'll hear them spouting myths like, "You don't need to aim a shotgun", "A shotgun won't pentrate walls", "A shotgun is easy to use for small women who don't know anything about guns", "You won't even have to shoot anyone, just the sound will scare them away", and other such nonsense. Add in the mythical "stopping power" of the 12 ga. shotgun, and all together they think they have a super-weapon that will stop any criminal immediately, no matter how inexperienced or inaccurate the shooter is.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Here is a pretty good analysis of shotgun myths by a professional.

http://www.krtraining.com/KRTraining/Classes/deflonggun.html

Shotgun myths attract posers. And they can be dangerous. Mas Ayoob reports a guy who heard the noise outside. Went outside to rack his shotgun and scare away the demons with the noise. Well, it was the police looking for a crook. When he came out and did the macho display, he was shot.

 

[carguychris]

Just for the sake of discussion on the HD Shotgun vs. Rifle debate, Remington offers a little-known product that attempts to combine the beneficial aspects of both: the 7615 Police.

It's a .223 pump rifle that takes AR mags. Notably, it has a 16-1/2" barrel (shorter than the nominal non-NFA shotgun minimum), and is available with collapsible or short-LOP stocks to minimize overall length.

http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm

I'd argue that it's still inferior to a semi-auto rifle due to the need to manipulate the slide, and I don't think it's quite as short as a 16"bbl AR carbine, but it's a decent choice for folks who want a .223 HD rifle but live in a restrictive state or don't want to project an "Evil Black Rifle" image for whatever reason. I surmise that- with the mag out- most non-shooters won't be able to tell this rifle apart from an old-school riot shotgun.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

It was designed for police for two reasons:

1. To avoid claims that the departments were buying 'military equipment' and terrorizing the population with that appearance - real reason.

2. There would be positive transfer of training from pump 870s - assuming police couldn't handle the move to the terribly complicated AR type gun.

 

[manta49]

Shotgun myths attract posers. And they can be dangerous. Mas Ayoob reports a guy who heard the noise outside. Went outside to rack his shotgun and scare away the demons with the noise. Well, it was the police looking for a crook. When he came out and did the macho display, he was shot.

I think the result would have being the similar if he did the same with any firearm.

 

[Theohazard]

I think the result would have being the similar if he did the same with any firearm.

Probably, but that's not the point. The point is that the sound of a pump shotgun is legendary, and people are often specifically advised to use the sound as a deterrent for criminals.

Several times a day at almost every LGS in the US, there's probably at least one employee or customer talking about the deterrent effect of the sound of the action on a pump shotgun. Yet you almost never hear anyone talk about the deterrent effect of a handgun slide or an AR bolt being racked.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Shotgun myths attract posers. And they can be dangerous. Mas Ayoob reports a guy who heard the noise outside. Went outside to rack his shotgun and scare away the demons with the noise. Well, it was the police looking for a crook. When he came out and did the macho display, he was shot.

You can attach a bad outcome to virtually any stupid act.

Probably, but that's not the point. The point is that the sound of a pump shotgun is legendary, and people are often specifically advised to use the sound as a deterrent for criminals.

Several times a day at almost every LGS in the US, there's probably at least one employee or customer talking about the deterrent effect of the sound of the action on a pump shotgun. Yet you almost never hear anyone talk about the deterrent effect of a handgun slide or an AR bolt being racked.

You don't find many who sell guns talking about the deterrent effect of turning on a light either. I don't know that the sound is legendary, but the claim of deterrence surely is, regardless of validity.

 

[Mainah]

I was advised (by a guy at a trusted gun shop) that activating a laser sight would deter bad guys when they saw it on the walls inside my house. If that kind of advice worked I could get by with the laser pen I got for the cats and a smartphone app that produces shotgun racking sounds. Or I could just put an NRA sticker on the front door and hope for the best.

I don't think that dumb advice should completely rule out the effectiveness of proven weapons. A shotgun is a great hd choice for many. A laser sight is a good tool.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I heard a guy at Cabelas want to buy a pump because he told the clerk he wanted to make the racking sound. He also wanted some blanks in case the racking sound didn't work. The clerk suggested also getting some rubber buckshot.

Genius!

 

[Mainah]

The poor guy probably walked out with a bayonet for his Buck knife. "Stuff I heard at Cabelas" would be a great forum.

 

[gyvel]

All,

Please do not go off-topic; this is NOT a thread about what YOU use for home defense. Unless you are a member of the type of unit I described above, I (frankly) don't care.

Then why don't you directly contact each of the "professionals" you listed and ask them yourself.

And while you're at it, see if any of them have ever had a "home defense" situation.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I think we are done.

Let's all sit in the dark living room with a Barrett 50 BMG and wait for the zombies!