Home Defense Scenario

Meanwhile back in reality many pistol rounds will shatter bricks and cinder blocks like clay.
I know .357 and .44 magnum will do it as I have done it. I've seen some hot 9mms do it too.
I have seen .44 specials shoot through trees that were nine inches deep and I ahve seen .45 long colt penetrate nine inches of wood too.

Back in high school a buddy of mine had a shooting into his house. His brother and sister in law split up and the brother moved back home.
The next night somebody drove past their house and shot into the place with a 12 gauge loaded with OO buckshot.
It went through the outside wall and the insulation, through the inside wall, through the bedroom wall, down the hallway, through the bathroom wall, into the far wall where it was finally stopped by the brick exterior.

When I hear people who don't have much real life experience in shooting into different mediums go on and on about how the shotgun is such a great home defense peice, I get the willies and become scared for their neighbors.

Even though .38s and .380s and .32s are 'wimp loads' they may be a better alternative for a self defense peice if you live in a crowded neighborhood.

If you are gonna use an effective caliber, you might want to look into Glaser Safety Slugs.
 
I always hear about this grave concern of overpenetration, and, innocents being injured or killed by rounds that penetrated the bad guy and continued on. Can anyone provide any real world stories about that?

A clean miss is a whole lot more likely, and, given the number of rounds fired in some Police shootouts from both parties, the Police and the bad guys, would seem to be quite a danger, but, again, it doesn't seem to actually happen very often. North Hollywood is a good example. In this case, approximately 650 rounds were fired at two heavily armed and heavily armored men, who had fired 1,100 rounds themselves...in the middle of suburban LA. 17 people were injured and 2 (the bad guys) killed..and, they were TRYING to kill people with thier shots...

Unless you are standing in the middle of a crowd, what are the chances of your less than 1/2 inch diameter projectile actually hitting an un intended target? I suppose it could happen, but, it seems that it doesn't happen very often.

Remember, if the bad guy is shooting at you, the longer it takes you to stop him, the greater the danger to everyone around, including you. He is being alot less careful about where his rounds go that, hopefully, you are. So, carry a round with a reasonable expectation of stopping the bad guy first.
 
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Over the years I have attended many SD/HD and combat training courses. What did I learn? Do whatever it takes with whatever weapon to defend youself and loved ones from the BG and worry about the what ifs or the AS's after the fact.
 
Should I go with ammo's that has less penetration?
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It really depends on your living situation. Are there many people crowded into small rooms/apartments/units all around you?

If not, then I would not go with a less penetrating round. I would substitute that with training, awareness, practice, training, and hopefully luck.
 
be sure of your target and have a backstop(fireplace,safe,etc).
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"Excuse me Dear Sir, Sir, Sir? Oh yes, would you mind taking a stance there in front of the icebox?"
Probably one of the least pracical things I have read, unless of course you mean one should locate a fridge or fireplace at the bottom of the stairs or some other location that is likely to be down range, even then a bit unpractical for many.

Corbon or birdshot is the best answer.

I have seen it demonstrated several times that buckshots can go through two drywall panels and still cause lethal penetration in ballistic gel.
 
I have no fear about using my 44 magnum for personal protection. Of course, I only plan to use it as a club to beat them over the head with. I prefer it because it has an 8 3/8" barrel, whereas my 357 and 45 Colt only have 7.5" barrels. Much better club with the longer barrel. :D
 
I second the shotgun sentiment. Easy to aim in distress, lower penetration with the right shells, and of course the familiar *shlick-shlok* sound will likely clear the house before you have to use it.
 
I love handguns deeply...but

In an urban/suburban setting, for inside the house, I choose the shotgun. And I choose birdshot. Before you start telling me how birdshot isn't effective and doesn't penetrate enough to get to the vitals and stop an attacker, remember that the objective is to stop the attack, and physically stopping the attacker is just one way of doing that.

I did a lot of shooting different things with a 12ga as a youth, mostly with birdshot, and I have faith in it at across the room ranges. I also remember my grandfather's advice, that if you need to, "shoot 'em in the face!"

At across the room ranges, the shotgun is a circle around 4 inches across, and carries a devastating punch, even with birdshot. Follow up rounds with buckshot or even (heaven forbid,:eek:) slugs are there for those rare individuals who decide to press the attack after taking a round of birdshot at close range. As far as I'm concerned, if they run off after taking a load of birdshot, mission accomplished. And should you miss, birdshot is going to be a lot less dangerous afer going through a wall (if it even does) than the bigger stuff.

It really matters not what you choose, as long as you choose something you have confidence in.

I would not deliberately choose handgun ammo because of "less penetration". Like the one fellow said, what happens afterwards is less important, you have to survive first.
 
anyone have opinions on snake shot for pistol/shotgun self defense? Can those pellets do anything reliably or do they lose too much momentum after being fired?
 
anyone have opinions on snake shot for pistol/shotgun self defense? Can those pellets do anything reliably or do they lose too much momentum after being fired?
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Snake shot is a very bad idea for self defense. The snakeshot loads available for most handguns have very fine shot (usually either No. 9 or No. 12) and a very small amount of it. They offer very little penetration and are best relegated to pest control at relatively short ranges. If you really want a handgun to shoot shotshells, you'd be better off with a Taurus Judge loaded with .410 shells, and even that is of questionable value.
 
You have to still be around to regret the line

and if you are, then you won.

It doesn't mean that what happens later is of no importance, it can be very important. But it is never as important as basic survival!

And forget snake shot in a handgun. The reason 12ga (or even 20ga) birdshot is effective at close range is the mass of shot, still very much together at across the room range. Snake shot is the lightest shot, and the rifling from a pistol spins it so it spreads faster than a smoothbore gun. Also, the snake shot shells are not loaded to the same power level as regular ammo. Very ...unsatisfactory for anything other than snakes and small animals, and not all that great for them, due to the rifling spin, making the shot pattern into a donught shape, complete with hole in the middle, after the range gets beyond a fairly short distance.
It really isn't like regular ammo with shot instead of a bullet.
 
I live in the country, so penetration is not a concern. However, if it were, I tend to think it is highly over-exaggerated. What are the odds that a bullet is going through walls and then randomly hit someone with enough energy to do damage. Possible, sure, but highly improbable. The odds that a bad guy will take a few 9mm or 45 rounds and kepp fighting is much higher.
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OK, just a bit of a flame and reality check. I know from first hand experience that the odds of a 9mm silvertip will have enough energy to hurt and or kill someone on the other side of a wall. I had one go off and go through two sheets of drywall (a wall) and then through a 1/2 plywood door into a cabinet and killed a couple dishes.

Reality is the odds are pretty good for the energy and penetration. Reality is as a gun owner you are held responsible for your bullet when it stops, no matter what the damage. My wife had a car (67 Mustang) get a hole put in trunk from some idiot with a 9mm on new years eve.

I live in the country now and don't really worry about the new years eve thing anymore, but If I were to use one of my handguns for HD/SD I would certainly use a Glazer round. I would use 9mm or .380 or something small. I have personally seen a shooting inside a building with a 9mm Glazer round and they are very affective! The perp was dead before he hit the ground. The shot was at 30 feet or so and he was wearing a heavy denim coat. So the odds of a bad guy getting hit with a 9mm or 45 and keep fighting is slim too.

So, if you wish to flame me go ahead, but to those of you who are caliber crazy or number of rounds crazy, or "Who cares about the accidental damage" people. Get a life, be responsible and don't help the government justify taking responsible people's guns away! I am not an advocate of regulation, but some people need regulation. If you are offended by these statements, maybe you should take a look at what you are doing and determine if it is responsible. If the shoe fits...... If you are responsible you should not get upset with these statements at all!

I speak these things having had first hand experience and have noted it above. I think if you use a handgun for HD/SD you should very strongly consider the Glazer round, period. It will only go through one sheet of drywall and if it does for some freak reason go through the second one, it will be so fragmented it will only wound. I have seen it bounce off a table and scratch the skin of several people, but never really hurt anyone. They do when they are shot at a person, will kill.

Most bad guys breaking into you house unless you are a drug dealer or member of some sort of a mafia are looking for pawnable stuff to support their drug habit. They will scare easy. For the other less than one percent of the bad guys, you will need much more than a handgun. They will have body armor and lots of people and guns. So if you want to talk odds, the odds are you not have to ever have to shoot your HD/SD weapon and you will almost every time be able to scare the bad guy away fairly easy. I know everyone here has read something that says some person has been broken in to and the bad guy had a gun and tied them up, raped the women and took all their money. The odds of this a so slim they don't even try to publish a number. I too have read about it, but those types of crimes are so rare...

Anyway, rant over for now!

Flame away....

Mel:mad:
 
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