Home breakin scenario I have trouble with

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Texas Penal Code §9.42 does contain the following language:

" A person is justified using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
....(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robberty, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property, and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury."

So technically you can shoot if they are escaping with your property.

Again, there's the law, and living with the consequences. You can probably count on being prosecuted unless there's a smart grand jury or sympathetic prosecutor. You'll be making this argument as an affirmative defense at trial, likely as not.
 
imagine telling your war vet grandfather, here is how I protect my family:

"Hello 911, could you please send the police to search my house, I think I heard a noise, there is a key under the front door mat, please call me back when MY house is clear". If that is your idea of reality check, and being smarter, than more power to you. If you want to rely on LEO and the government for a bump in the night, go for it. If you want to teach your kids to rely on LEO for every little obstacle, go for it. I don't even use governement schools for my kids, let alone running off a raccoon ransacking the garage.

A couple tinted suburbans full of JBT (Jack Booted Thugs), crashing into my house, yes I will barricade and hope the local sherrif has some balls. If TEOTWAWKI happens, and there are 'zombies' comings in numbers, then I will barricade; BUT a bump in the night in my own house... come on.

I consider this over analyzing. "Here are the 57 reasons you should do nothing for yourself or someone else, craw out a back door and call 911". Be a good witness to the crime. Let the LEO's protect us. A noise, quick barricade the family and call the cops. It seems to be a common theme on many of these threads.

Bad response. You don't know how many there are, how armed they are, where they are all at within your house, etc.
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This is why the cops did not go into Columbine high school, they did not know if there were bombs, how many perps, etc. So they waited until the shooting died down. That is also why not one cop entered the VT college building for at least 10 minutes while they heard scores of gun shots and screams as the victims kept adding to the count. They didn't know how many bad guys so they didn't go in. Every picture you see has a cop hiding behind a tree. That's the LEO I want to rely on for me and my family.

It's alot easier to find reasons to NOT act.

Everyone has to evaluate their own capabilities, training, equipment and conscience and decide their reactions.
 
imagine telling your war vet grandfather, here is how I protect my family
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Ok, now try telling your war vet grandfather you died because you were stupid.


You need to drop the macho, superhero, seen to many movies b.s. and get real. You obviously are untrained and need to listen to the advice of those who are. The point of this forum is to learn from others.
You go searching your house in the middle of the night and you run a serious risk of being ambushed and winding up dead. On a basic break-in, the cops aren't going to be hiding behind a tree. They are trained to come in, clear your house as a pair, and make sure you and your family of 6 are safe. Your plan is going to make your family of 6 a fatherless family of 5.
 
You need to drop the macho, superhero, seen to many movies b.s. and get real. You obviously are untrained and need to listen to the advice of those who are.
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I have been through some training, I have read and studied a good bit. I dont feel it is stupid, superhero, or macho crap. I've seen 1 movie in 7 years, and watch almost zero tv. And I feel I am being real. I try to learn from others. It's called a strong difference in opinion. You call the cops, and I will see if it's a bad guy or another racoon while my wife waits with a handgun. At our house, koons and critters wake us up 2-3 times a week.
 
If I heard a noise, I'd call the cops. If the person is NOT in my house - all the better. I don't look for trouble / start trouble. True they are taking my stuff - but most of the time the average thief doesn't want to get caught. I few lights get turned on they run.

That is whi I have homeowners insurance from someone who is on my side...
Just IMO..
 
Just to add fuel to the fire:

In my case I would just about have to clear the first and second story to secure my family of 4.
Out of our bedroom to secure the little one.

Cross the open main living area that includes the living area/dinniing area/sitting area/kitchen. Would be crossing from the kitchen on left with the rest to my right and front. Longest line of sight 30-40 feet, distance to traverse 12 feet.

Up the stairs to the daughters loft. Stairway is open on right with 2 doors coming in, living/dinning area to rear. Stairway is also open at the top.

I'm real screwed in the stairs since I need to basicly cover 360, wife has the little one......

Man I realy need to work on this one.
 
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mattro said (and rather piously too I might add):

I am sorry, but that is BS. Talk about the feminization of men in America! I will not cower in my room every time I hear a bump in the night and wait for LEO, while the perp goes through my house to get me and my family of 6 that are spread out through the house.

Your suggested cowardice is much closer to movie stuff. Call the cope so they can come search my house? I hope you are kidding... If I did that, I would hope my wife would tell me I am a joke.

Not in my castle, with my family. Not trying to be a hard ass, but that is ridiculous.
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- and -

And I feel I am being real. I try to learn from others. It's called a strong difference in opinion.
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I don't mind anyone having a strong difference of opinion but if you go insinuating that another's course of action is cowardice then I think you have crossed the line.

I'll stop there since I'm getting a bit worked up myself now.
 
I'll concede my commit was too strong, I drew first blood.

I think my strong reaction stems from not being used to all the talk of running away, crawling away, doing nothing, calling the cops cause there is a noise in your house, sit back-call 911 and watch the crime (be a good witness).

To me (imo), it goes a little too close to much of the common thinking in that is unwinding America:
people shouldn't own guns, poeple shouldn't carry guns, guns kill people, don't spank your children, retreat insead of defend, war is never justified, why help someone when it isn't my problem, why own a gun when you have 911, can't we just talk to the terrorist ?????

I will keep criticism to myself, it is not productive...
 
It's all good, you gave a reasonable response.

I will keep criticism to myself, it is not productive...
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Please don't, just be aware of how you phrase things. We all need to do that. Your anger is somewhat justified but I think that if someone explained the position of barricade and call 911 it would make more sense to you. Not one person on this thread is going to back down if someone is threatening their life or loved ones lives. This is more about not escalating a robbery to a shooting "IF" it can be avoided. If you barracade and wait, you are in the best possible defensive position even if calvary isn't coming. If you attack or escalate, all bets are off. You just don't know what the outcome will be then.

If I could get set up to cover the entry way suspected perp was on the other side of, I'd not hesitate to shoot if he came through that door (once identified of course). There's an awful lot of assumptions being made here though by everyone posting and we've all got a different vision of how this thing is playing out in our heads. Your "perp" could be a racoon, a local teen who would wet his pants upon discovery, or a gang banger who has 3 other armed buddies with him.

The initial idea though seemed to be would you shoot to protect property if the perp was fleeing with it. Most of us altered the scenario a touch. :D
 
I think my strong reaction stems from not being used to all the talk of running away, crawling away, doing nothing, calling the cops cause there is a noise in your house, sit back-call 911 and watch the crime (be a good witness).
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It's not about being a good witness. Nobody said not to shoot if you are in danger. Actually, the paragraph that you quoted that started this stated that you should shoot if they come into the room you are in!
It's not about cowering in a corner and hoping they go away, it's about staying safe and legal.
Safe: You don't have any information about the situation other than "intruder". Not how many, how armed, where they are at, what their intentions are, nothing. Going out to find them in many cases will get you killed quick. Then who protects your family? Think before you act!
Legal: In some states, someone coming in to your house doesn't give you the right to shoot them, you may have an obligation to flee before you are legally allowed to shoot. In others, as soon as they come in you can shoot. You need to know your state laws regarding the use of deadly force.
 
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I am getting it, we just have different approaches how to protect our castle...

I have read several posts where a perp is pointing a gun at soemone, and multiple posts recommending laying low and do nothing, hoping all will end well. For me, that would skirt what I feel to be my obligation. If someone feels there obligation is to let the perp shoot, fine.

If soemone else wants to call LEO for a bump in the night, thats fine by me...

One of the things that makes America beautiful, we're free to make these choices (at least in Indiana).

Good discussion.
 
Yeah mattro, I understand. The ethical (? not sure if that's the right word here) spread on these forums is wide. It can get your dander up. :D
 
You know i bet the guys who talk so tough here have never been in combat of any kind. I spent 6yrs in the Marines and was in Desrt Storm with the 1st Marine Division. I have been in fire fights, most before the war started when we were doing recon on teh mine fields and defesive positions. I would not shoot him. If i shoot a kid that is running away with a wrench of mine i just lowered my value of life. I wont do that. Just because i would not shoot him does not mean im a girly man. Mattro you talk like a chairborne commando. You sound like you cant wait to shoot someone. I bet you would be the first to duck and run when the lead starts flying. Only those who have not been in combat want to be in combat.
 
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