Hmmm Maybe a thumb safety is not so bad....

44 AMP said:
You COULD have your magazine button pushed while carrying. It has happened. Yet no one is crying for the general use of the heel clip magazine catch to prevent this dangerous occurrence!
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Well...you probably won't hear people crying for that because a) it is unlikely give a good holster, and 2) having the magazine release/catch activated won't cause you to shoot yourself.

jcv said:
How often does a civilian in a self defensive situation need a fast draw?
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For that matter, whether it be at home, while CC'ing, or when stopping at a red light, how likely is it that any of us will EVER need our firearms for SD. Still that doesn't stop most of us from owning and/or CC'ing. Why not know that you can be as fast as you safely can be? If you don't need speed, then no problem, but if you DO need speed, it will be a little too late practice.

Again, most of this all comes down to basic firearms safety, quality equipment, and going a step further and establishing some proactive (before the self inflicted wound) personal SOP's.

Fly
 
we are presuming that the same people who cannot be relied upon to keep their finger of the trigger can be absolutely relied upon to engage the safety.
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^^^THIS^^^

No pistol is safe.... if the nut behind the trigger is loose. If the nut behind the trigger is snugged down appropriately then ANY modern gun is safe.

Ive spent my life as a Professional Firearms user. Mil, LE, Instructor, Govt Contractor. I admit to being something of a training oddity in the general firearms world, but handeling firearms is a "no stupid zone". If you do something stupid, its YOUR fault. Not whether the gun had a safety or not.

As the quote above says. If a person is putting their finger on the trigger at inappropriate times, they prob are not using the safety appropriately either
 
AK103K said:
The draw isnt as much the issue, as is reholstering. Thats were the speed is not necessary, nor is it desired, especially from the standpoint of safety.
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I would agree with 99.9% of what you have said here, but I will have to disagree on this point. Albeit rare, people do shoot themselves during the draw. A few weeks ago, an experienced competitor just put one through his thigh that came to rest in his knee. There are lots of people who hate the Serpa holster with it's active retention, so it could be argued that this is another equipment failure or at least a poor choice. However, I consider that holster to be perfectly safe as long as (mirroring what you have already said) the user PRACTICES thoroughly with it.

ETA: The person who shot themselves competes in USPSA Open class, and was using one of those fancy open minimalist holsters, and not a Serpa. Point being, all of his equipment was perfectly safe, but not when you fail to adhere to the fundamental firearms safety rules.

Fly
 
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Selecting a holster that does not cover the entire trigger guard is negligent, and using the holster after it had become soft and flexible is negligent. That said, it can be mathematically proven that carrying a pistol with a non-passive external safety is safer than carrying one without such a safety. The poor quality of argumentation against this obvious truth demonstrates why our society is in decay. No matter what one hopes and thinks, you can't create reality through chanting.
 
I have already done so in another thread. A Glock fan-boy moderator, after acknowledging the validity of the model offered, insulted me then closed the thread. Another indication of societal decay, Frank. Feel free to search for the thread in question.
 
Limnophile said:
I have already done so in another thread. A Glock fan-boy moderator, after acknowledging the validity of the model offered, insulted me then closed the thread. Another indication of societal decay, Frank. Feel free to search for the thread in question.
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I don't believe you.

And I don't need to search for the thread. It's your claim so it's your burden of proof, You need to supply the link to your alleged proof.

Put up or shut-up.
 
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No matter what one hopes and thinks, you can't create reality through chanting.
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That works both ways.

If youre uncomfortable and/or not competent enough to carry something, then by all means, dont, and in reality, you shouldnt be, as you will likely be one that has a problem.

People have been having issues with pretty much everything ever marketed at some point, and will continue to do so, no matter how many safeties the gun has, and/or how safe the gun is supposed to be. The weakest link, will always be the competence of the user, and if they arent willing to work at that, youre never going to solve the problem.
 
AK103K said:
...People have been having issues with pretty much everything ever marketed at some point, and will continue to do so, no matter how many safeties the gun has, and/or how safe the gun is supposed to be....
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And people have demonstrated the ability to learn to manage even particularly dangerous devices or materials safely.

Before the days of anti-lock brakes, skilled drivers learned and practiced cadence or threshold braking techniques to reduce stopping distances while avoid skidding on slick surfaces.

The Single Action Army revolver can be carried safely by having the hammer lowered on an empty chamber.
 
And people have demonstrated the ability to learn to manage even particularly dangerous devices or materials safely.
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Agreed. Which was basically my point.

Youre always going to have those who wont bother to put in the time/work necessary to do so, so the problem will always exist. What the gun (or whatever) is, really doesnt matter.

Then youre always going to have those who are uncomfortable with some aspect of something, and/or arent willing to put the time and effort in to learn the gun, who will cry the sky is falling, and try to convince you that its not possible for mere mortals, to handle it safely.

The internet has just magnified the problem exponentially too, as many of the complaints/fears, are simply parroted, over and over, by people with no real experience with whats being demonized.
 
I was very glad to meet an individual who felt Glocks were unsafe, when he sold me his G26 gen 3 for $275 due the lack of a manual safety. Been shooting it for five years now...it never goes off unless I want it to.
But then, I treat it like a loaded gun...always.
 
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