HK USP Compact

S

Shmackey

New member
I've been trying to find my ideal CCW pistol for a while now. Every pistol kept coming up with some kind of shortcoming. The closest to perfection was a Sig 228, but I prefer a manual safety. Then I found the HK USP-C line and I'm amazed.

I don't hear about these pistols a lot on TFL for some reason. I have a couple of questions:

I like Variants 1 and 9 (da/sa, manual safety on the left). One model has a safety that decocks and the other doesn't. But both can be carried cocked and locked, or locked/unlocked in DA (right?). How can you carry C&L with the model that decocks? Decock, then lock, then cock? Sounds strange. Somebody tell me why I'd choose one over the other.

How's the full-capacity mag situation for 9mm? I'd get either 9mm or .45--the latter only takes 8 no matter what.

Why don't I hear about these more when people mention Sigs, Glocks, and other "modern" semi-autos? Is it the price?
 
I have a 9mm USPc. While 13 round non-LEO hi-caps exist, they are rare. That's the gun's biggest shortcoming.

That being said, it's a great gun otherwise. Mine is a blued V1. Good accuracy, good size, though it holds 2 less rouds than the equivalently sized Glock 19 and 3 less than the equivalently sized Walther P99.

Regarding carrying cocked and locked with a decocking model, the trick is in the lever. Most guns (ie, Beretta 92, Walther PPK) decock when you put on the safety. The lever is a 2 position switch, and can be (1) ready to fire, or (2) safe/decocked. The USP has a 3 position switch. (1) Fire is in the middle. (2) Push the lever up and it's safe. (3) However, push the lever all the way down and you're decocked (the lever will not stay in the down position, though, and flips back up to fire).

Thus, if you want cocked and locked, rack the slide and put on the safety. If you want uncocked and locked, rack the slide, push the lever down to decock, then put the lever to safe.

Sorry if that was so confusing.
 
That was a great description! Sounds like I might as well get the variant with the safety that also decocks. It has everything the non-decocking safety has, and more.

What's a good price for a USP-C in 9mm new/used? And how much are magazines in 13/10 round?

Time to start selling other things...
 
Hi,
I own one in .357 SIG and it is a beautiful pistol. Love the ergonomics, the lever action variant 1, the whole deal. I don't like it for carry, though. Too big and heavy. It is my nightstand gun now. I only wore it for a few weeks and promptly found a SW CS9 which is much lighter and more compact. I am a thin guy and concealment is of the utmost importance to me. The HK is a great pistol, however, and it remains my favorite, just too heavy and large for daily carry for me. some can hide it, I can't. Hope that helps. Don't know what they go for used but you should be able to get a good idea at www.gunsamerica.com and www.gunbroker.com. They show up in the classifieds here every now and then. mags can be expensive when bought in stores. i have seen some used ones here for much cheaper. Also check out www.hkpro.com forums. Hope that helps.

Thanks.
nashgill
 
They're nice pistols, very sturdy and reliable, but way overpriced. I was out gun-shopping today on my afternoon off and fondled a few USPc models at the local gun emporium, and I always have the same thought when I handle one: nice $450 gun. There's just no way I'll drop six and a half bills or more on a USPc when another $200 could get me into a refurbished P7M8.
 
Worth every penny to me, but YMMV. I have never handled a P7x though, in all fairness, but the USPc does it for me.
 
lendringser, I agree the P7 is a heck of a pistol. But I'm curious: do you think only the USPs are overpriced or the Sigs as well?
 
With the .45 version, you'd get 8+1. Not too shabby for a .45.

I think they are great guns. I carry a compact .45 stainless. Couldn't be happier with any other gun.

As far as being overpriced, a gun is worth what people will pay for it. I'll keep buying H&Ks because of the quality.

Shake
 
You're right that the USPc is a little underrated here on Firing Line, not sure why, except that people who don't own HK's seem to either want one, or want to cut them down over their cost :)

I'm bemused by the people who think they're overpriced. They would be overpriced if their performance wasn't worthy of the price.

I own two, in .45 ACP, and they are the most reliable pistols I have ever shot (including Walther P5, SIG 226, Walther PPK-S, Kimber Polymer Pro Carry 1911, Gunsite Service Pistol, and many others). They retail for $650.00. They go bang every time. The magazines are $38.00 each. They work every time. Parts can be hard to get. You don't generally need to try to get them. HK supposedly caters more to the LE business. For me they're worth the price.

Check McDonald Tactical for some competitive pricing.
 
H&K compact

I have a H&K compact Varaint #1 in 357sig.

Like the weapon, except factory sites are not up to my standards.

Replacing them with MMC adjustables.

12-34hom
 
There are no, repeat no legal 13 round hi-cap non LEO magazines for the HKUSPc 9mm.

The gun was introduced in 1996, the ban in 1994, the math doesn't work. HKPRO, the unoffical HK website confirms this fact.

BUT, there are a limited number of post 1994 unlabelled "grey" imports that surface occasionally, asking price is usually $125.

Get found out and risk felony charges, there is at least one TFL member who has acquired 3 of them, and is affirmed in his belief that he has H&K gold dust. Buy them at your peril, you have been warned.

Mike H
 
I recently bought one in .40 S&W. So far it has been 100% reliable, and very accurate despite having a stiff DA trigger. I got one because it has controls that emulate a 1911, with the added benefit of the DA w/decocker. Yes, mine is a V1 like most others. The only other gripe is that it is a bit top-heavy in the hand, but it's not that big of a deal. The important thing is that the controls are all very easy to reach without shifting your grip on the pistol. I was comparing it to both a SIG P229 and a SIG Pro 2340, and I noticed I had to shift my hand a great deal just to activate the decocker on those two. BTW the USP Compact is more than light enough for carry IMO. I am only 150lbs, yet I can carry a USP all day long. Then again, as alluded to earlier I'm more used to 1911s. ;)

I think the two main reasons why it hasn't caught on more: cost vs. competitive designs, and the fact that hi-caps aren't available. Some folks have deeply sincere, religious beliefs against owning post-'94 neutured pistols. I'm talking about the ones who will spend $450 on a Glock 23, then pay another $600 or so for a half-dozen hi-cap mags. My line of thought with the USP was, for another $40 I can have 20 rounds instead of ten! :) But the problem with that is that it makes too much sense.
 
DSK, I agree.

If, in fact, I'd legally only be able to have 10 rounds of 9mm as opposed to 8 rounds of .45ACP, I'd have to think long and hard about the .45. I have a 1911 and, therefore, lots of .45 ammo laying around. I actually *like* the idea of 9mm for CCW (which puts me in the minority) because it's easier to shoot and because you can typically carry more of it. But if one of those reasons is gone, then it's time to think .45!

1911 folks, how does the USP-C shoot in comparison? I have a standard Kimber that I've tweaked here and there.
 
Shmackey,
I have bothe the USPc 40m and the Kimber Compact 45, I have put 1000 rds thru the kimber and about 200 rounds thru the uspc, The Kimber is a bit more smooth, but the USPc is IMHO just puts a smile on my face every time I shoot it. FYI I have shot 45 GM's for over 20 years with approx 20000 downrange, as you can tell I like them:D But the USPc is fast becoming a favorite.

Jim
 
Smackey,

Unlike traditional SA autos like the 1911 or HiPower, the safety on a USP can be engaged with the hammer cocked or the hammer down. Also, the slide can be operated with the safety engaged.

The easiest way to carry the USP (full or compact) cocked and locked: When the gun is empty, engage the saaaaaaaafety first. Insert a full mag. Rack the slide. Drop the mag and top it off and re-insert. You're good to go. The one nice thing about the safety on a USP is that, unlike a 1911, you can leave it engaged while you're clearing the weapon.
 
I have 2 HK USPc, in .40 and .45. There are some good things about the guns, including:

- reliable
- reasonably accurate
- can carry cocked and locked
- soft felt recoil
- safety works the way G*d and John Browning intended (down is off safe, up is on safe), unlike S&W and Beretta.

But there's a lot of things that I don't like about them, including:

- SA trigger is only ok. Not as good as my Sig P239's SA trigger. Nowhere near a good 1911 trigger.
- DA trigger is AWFUL. Incredibly heavy. Need 2 fingers and a come-along. Ridiculous.
- Safety is ok. A bit mushy compared to a M1911
- The slides are f*ckin HUGE. Put one of these side by side with a M1911 or Kahr, and you'll see what I mean. Even the .40's slide is HUGE. That makes these pretty big guns to conceal. What were they SMOKING when they designed the slides? This is supposed to be a CONCEALED gun, and it's got this great big HONKIN SLIDE!
- I don't like the mag release. On the .45, I can't reach it with my right thumb, have to use index finger instead.
- The high bore axis results in a lot of muzzle flip.
- The grip circumference on the .45 is just a wee bit too big for me.

The main problem is that they are just overly large. The USPc .45 is significantly bigger than my Kimber Compact and gives me no advantages over it (and plenty of disadvantages).

The USPc .40 is huge compared to my Kahr K40.

They're not bad guns, but certainly not great.

M1911
 
M1911,

Now I don't want to start a flame war here, but I have to disagree with several issues.

I agree that the trigger both SA and DA are not the best, but comparing them to a good 1911 trigger is unfair as they use different mechanics. The SA triggers on my USPs are certainly good enough that they don't negatively affect my shooting. I'm not sure the DA trigger pull really matters as much as people make out. I carry mine cocked and locked and under normal circumstances will never need to use the DA pull during a crisis. If I do, it is manageable.

The slides appear large, but when you compare them to other guns out there, their specs are pretty much in line with others. You claim they are huge compared to your Kimber, well, the Kimber's listed width is 1.28 inches. The H&K. . . 1.33 inches. A whopping difference of 0.05 inches or 5/100ths of an inch. Not a lot in my book. Not enough, certainly, to label the H&K "huge" and the Kimber compact. Comparing them with the Kahr or the 1911 is really not fair in that the 1911 and the Kahr are both single stack guns. Besides, anything looks huge compared to the Kahr. Compare the Kahr's listed width with that of the Kimber and you'll come up with a much more significant figure than the H&K vs. the Kimber.

Now, with that being said, I'd be the first to admit that the Kimber is easier to carry than the H&K since its shape does lend itself well to being carried comfortably. The Kimber has the rounded slide profile and is simply more "carry ergonomic". The H&K is blocky (blocky does not mean big-means squared) and is a little harder to carry comfortably-Though I do not find mine uncomfortable at all to carry.

I think if you compare the sizes of other similar guns to the H&K, the overall specs will be so small as to be negligible as shown above. I'd look them up for you if I hadn't done it fifty times already. They simply aren't that much bigger than the rest of the guns in their class. They appear so, yes, but they aren't.

I love the mag release on the H&Ks and the Walthers. I have what I consider to be big hands (I once compared wedding rings with a guy at work-I can pass his entire ring through the center of mine). On most guns out there, I have to adjust my grip to get to the mag release. Exceptions are 1911s with extended mag releases, my Beretta Elite II with its extended mag release, my CZ75 with the plain checkered grips (not the thumbrest grips), and the H&Ks and Walther P-99s. I find it much easier to use my index finger than my thumb (otherwise I reposition with those two guns as well).

Labeling a gun "great" is pretty subjective. For my purposes, the H&Ks are "great". They fit every criteria I look for in a defensive handgun and I shoot them best to boot. I've got a lot of other handguns, but the H&Ks are the ones I shoot the best.

Again, not trying to light a fire, just stating my opinion (the measurements are not my opinions as they came from the H&K and Kimber websites).

Shake
 
My thoughts are not too far off from M1911s, but definitely toned down in the emotion department. ;) Yes the slide is overly large, but not enough to be a big deal regarding concealment. The grip is always the hard part to conceal because it usually sticks out at a perpendicular angle to your body. The girth of the slide isn't as critical.

And yes there is more muzzle flip with the USP than with guns like the Glock, but overall it's very soft-shooting so I don't really care that much about it.

I think the combination safety/decocker system is among the best of any modern firearm. Not only can it be actuated according to almost every training technique used, but the fact that you can clear the weapon while on-safe is a definite asset inside the home.

Regarding how it feels compared to the 1911, well there's no comparison. There's a reason why the 1911 is still the King. But the USP has advantages of its own, and the fact that it's easy for someone accustomed to 1911s to manipulate is a definite plus.

But I still hafta get used to that %$#@ DA/SA transition! :mad:
 
I have two .45 compacts. The AB date code pistol (2001 manufacture) has a far superior SA sction and much smoother DA than my AA code (2000 mfr.) pistol. The SA has been improved to the point where it is comparable to that of a decent (not excellent) 1911, and is at least on par with the SA pull of a good SIG, a 226 in my comparison. The DA is still "stacky" but much smoother than before. The AA code pistol is certainly good enough as it is, but the AB is better.

M1911, I think of the DA pull of the HK as unimportant, because I carry it cocked and locked. However, the HK gives me the option of a second strike, and can be locked while being manipulated, which can be considered one minor shortcoming of the 1911.

I agree with Shake's opinion, but certainly not every pistol fits every shooter. I have large hands, the HK's work well for me (and for my wife who has very small hands, but can't reach the mag release with her thumb on either a 1911 or the USPc- but no prob releasing the mag with the index finger on the HK, go figure.)

Carry of the USPc is no more difficult for me than, say, a typical mid-size 1911 such as a Springfield Champion.

There is another big advantage over many 1911's, especially the Kimbers I have experienced... reliability and longevity.

Most Kimbers recoil springs seem to be pretty much shot out after about 4000 rounds. The HK is designed to go over 20K with no service required. Of the Kimbers I have shot (four different ones, two compact, two Polymer Pro Carry) only two feed reliably, the others are absolutely not acceptable for a carry weapon.

Further, the newer "Mark II" Kimbers seem to have mixed reviews as to trigger quality.

HK's by and large always go bang. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I'm working with what I know directly.

The Kahr 9's and .40's are very nice, flat CCW pistols, but I have yet to see one in .45.

I love 1911's for their shooting feel, accuracy and great triggers, but I carry the HK.

Aren't we fortunate to have so many great choices ?
 
Apologies for the double post.

Mike H, I saw a fair number of factory HK USPc .40 Hi Cap mags at one specific table, at the "gun" (jerky, beany baby, blowgun, sticker, gasmask, fake sword) show near SLC today. $125.00 each, date code "id" on the mag.

I have to believe they are illegal, as you mentioned, given the time frame for introduction of that model.

I would start a seaprate rant on the crapola that passes for a gun show thses days, but why bother...
 
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