History question

[gwnorth]

The Borchardt C-93 was one of the first autoloaders to see actual commercial production. I know Maxim (of machine gun fame) supposedly designed some pistols, but I never read or heard of one that was actually produced to market in any form. Those prototypes would be interesting to see though.

P.S. Easily seen why the C-93 wasn't an overwhelming success commercially

 

[OldMarksman]

Seems like the Eureopean nations embraced the auto-loaders quicker than we did,but who came out with the first double action revolver,and double action auto loaders?

The question has been answered: Adams and Walther , resp.

While the Swiss Army adopted the Luger in 1900, the German Navy and Army adopted it in 1904 and 1908, resp. The Austro Hungarian Cavalry adopted the Roth Steyr semiautomatic pistol in 1907. That's not all that much sooner than the adoption of the Army .45 Automatic in 1911, is it?

Colt had an excellent .38 automatic on the market in 1900, but for reasons well known, the Army was not about to adopt a .38---the reuirement was for a .45. In 1907, the U. S. Army started conducting tests of the .45 caliber Colt Model 1905, the Luger, and the Savage in 1907. The adoption of the Model 1911 followed a second series of tests that started in 1910. Luger had withdrawn from the competition.

If I'm not mistaken, most of Europe--Belgium, France, Greece, Italy, Norway, Russia, Serbia, Spain, Sweden, and the United Kingdom--stayed with revolvers for military issue for some time after that.

 

[Horseless Trooper]

I find it kind of interesting that when SWAT teams came into vogue the primarily revolver equipt American police utiized autos for SWAT while the primarily auto equipt European police went with revolvers in many instances.

The French police seem to have adopted revolvers in the 70's or there abouts and only recently began to transition to autos re the Sig 2002.

 

[gwnorth]

But keep in mind that it sure seems like a lot of LEO and even military issue and purchase decisions have less to do with getting effective weapons in the hands of the people who need them, and more to do with budgets and political/industry lobbying interests.

 

[mega twin]

Carrying the double action revolver a bit farther,was the webley self cocking revolver? invented before the self loader era,or was it simply a design step in revolvers that never caught on?

 

[Dfariswheel]

I can't find it right now, but there was at least one double action automatic made before the Walther PP.

It was a small pocket type pistol, that was DA-only.
In the firearms world, trying to determine "the first" in almost anything is often impossible.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Carrying the double action revolver a bit farther,was the webley self cocking revolver? invented before the self loader era,or was it simply a design step in revolvers that never caught on?"

You mean the Webley Fosberry automatic revolver?

It was first marketed in, I believe, around 1900, so semi-autos were both known and growing in success.

 

[marc2564]

Mannlicher Model 1894 was a double action auto.You could cock the hammer with your thumb, or double action pull of the trigger. In either case the hammer returned to the lower(hammer down) position
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_Mannlicher_M1894

 

[Webleymkv]

Seems like the European nations embraced the auto-loaders quicker than we did

Not really, many European militaries stayed with revolvers long after we'd gone to the 1911. The French, Russians, and Italians didn't replace their revolvers with autos as standard issue until the 1930's and the British kept their Webleys and Enfields until the 1950's and 60's. During WWI, the U.S. was the only major Allied power to have a semi-automatic as its standard-issue handgun, though most of the Central Powers had already gone to autos.

 

[gyvel]

Alois Tomiška’s Little Tom Pistol

by Ed Buffaloe
Photographs by Roger Coole

Alois Tomiška was born in Pardubice in what is now the Czech Republic on 13 February 1867. The name Tomiška literally means “little Tom.” He was apprenticed to a gunsmith in Vienna, Austria in the 1890’s. Tomiška received his first patent for what was to become the Little Tom pistol in 1908 (British patent 13880), and patented modifications to it in 1910 (British patent 23927) and 1913 (British patent 3439). He received a German patent (218897) in 1910, though it differed considerably from the production gun. He received a French patent (421.509) also in 1910. Hogg and Weeks state that Tomiška produced the Little Tom between 1908 and 1915, but R.J. Berger doubts that any but prototypes were made during this period. According to Berger, Tomiška moved to Pilsen, Czechoslovakia in 1918, where he began production of the Little Tom by hand, producing just over 2000 pistols by 1921. Tomiška sold the rights to Wiener Waffenfabrik in Vienna, which produced the Little Tom until 1925 (with a total production between 17,000 and 28,000 pistols).

The Walther was NOT the first true double action pistol; That honor goes to Alois Tomiska who designed and marketed the "Little Tom," a double action pistol in .25 and .32 ACP, in the early 20th century.