Hillbilly body armor test

Yes and no, the tests IIRC were conducted by the Army's research lab who happened to have developed the body armor Dragon Skin was seeking to replace.
Click to expand...

They did design it, but they don't manufacture it, and they wouldn't have been hurt in any way if Dragon Skin had proved out to be significantly superior. It's a government D0D organization, and like most they do employ contractors as well as their actual DoD employee staff.

Typically they would have received a tasking to develop body armor with such and such requirements, "Not more then X pounds, water resistant, stop a Xmm projectile at XXXXXFPS, with a 85% or better rate of success. However they right up the requirements, that's what they design to meet or exceed. Once they have done this and the prototypes test out, a contract get's let out to produce them and companies bid for the work. The companies products also must be tested to make sure they meet the same requirements as the contract stipulates. Once the companies' products past testing then they can submit bids on the contract.

Every day, all contracts that have been awarded, for $6.5 million or greater, are posted at this website http://www.defense.gov/contracts/.

I like this site cause I can find out who actually has work and not just who is trying to get work.
 
Wasn't Dragon Skin rather thoroughly discredited shortly after it was first introduced? Or am I getting it mixed up with some other personal body armor scammer?
Click to expand...

Yes, Pinnacle apparently fudged some of the credentials/ratings in order to get military contracts. That and QC problems got the armor booted from the military although it showed/shows great promise. The concept is apparently very good, but the implementation wasn't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Skin
 
They did design it, but they don't manufacture it, and they wouldn't have been hurt in any way if Dragon Skin had proved out to be significantly superior. It's a government D0D organization, and like most they do employ contractors as well as their actual DoD employee staff.
Click to expand...

Thanks lcpiper, knew I was a little fuzzy on the detail.

Anywho, I think I might take a whack at this and test it against my M1A with 147gr FMJs.
 
Anywho, I think I might take a whack at this and test it against my M1A with 147gr FMJs.
Click to expand...

I thought I might do the same and see how it held up to .338 Win. Mag and 62 grain steel penetrators out of the 5.56.
 
Another issue that the DoD had with Dragon Skin, IIRC, is that because it does not incorporate soft armor, it does not protect against blasts as much and because of the way the "scales" were stacked, it did very poorly against small arms fired from below the wearer as they would be for a helicopter crewman or tower guard.

I plan to test with 7.62x51mm too, eventually but I don't have very high expectations.
 
You need a better material between the hard plates. IMO something more preferable like Kevlar. But going hillbilly style, maybe just use a tarp. Then your glue over it and to hold the layers.
 
Aberration, this arrangement actually worked remarkably well. I have some scrap Kevlar on hand but I'd like to keep this something that you can make from materials found at the big box stores. Herculiner is surprisingly tough and does an excellent job of holding everything together. The next iteration will be two tiles and an HDPE cutting board backer with everything held together with Herc inside and out.
 
New version is two tiles with a cutting board backer in tactical red. I cut it down to 10"x12" and cut the corners. I actually just measured my Level III steel plate for the dimensions of the corner cuts. Turns out they took 2.5" from each corner so that leaves 5" across the top edge. Those Herculiner cans are a real pain to open. Thought I could make it happen with the Dillo but I had to take after it with a screwdriver. They actually glue the lids down.

bf2fk4.jpg


1tatc0.jpg


2jgx36.jpg


iogsc6.jpg
 
That and QC problems got the armor booted from the military although it showed/shows great promise.
Click to expand...

This is incorrect, a problem with wiki is that there is no real control over who posts what. That weakness is a strength too, but you gota know it's not all accurate.

The Army never adopted Dragon Skin. Some soldiers used personally purchased Dragon Skin usually cause their family bought and sent it wanting the best for their loved ones. This is understandable but unfortunately a waste.

Keep some things in mind about military equipment. It isn't enough to just buy a suit and wear it. That armor has to take some abuse, get wet, drug around, dropped and stomped on. Pieces break or wear and need replacing. If you are wearing issued equipment then replacements are right there in Supply. You just go take the bad one and swap it for a good one. If you need to there could be a good one on that dead guy over there. How do you get replacements of something that isn't issue? BTW, I still was issued my other Armor, now I have to keep track of two suites of armor, one takes up limited space in my room or in my vehicle. If I have to catch a flight with all my gear I have to carry a second suite. How well am I trained in maintaning my Dragon Skin? If you put some thought into it you will see all the problems keep adding up.

The Army told the soldiers they couldn't use any Body Armor that wasn't issued to them and they did it for these types of reasons along with the questionable performance issues.
 
Dragon Skin was about ten times the price of the competitors. Who thinks DOD was going to adopt that under any circumstances?

I don't think multiple hit tests show the effectiveness for any round very well. I doubt that X39 would have done so much damage if it hit first, but the armor was significantly damaged by the 223.
I know there were material costs to the test and that is why you probably did it like that, but it dosn't show us much. Your doing it for fun, so you need to maximize your fun though.
I am not sure this is great for body armor, but maybe in a pinch for a vehicle.
 
Last edited:
You're definitely right about the cost vs. fun ratio.

The third round of 7.62x39mm was definitely stopped and I think the first two were also, but the corner of the plate had bent back enough to damage the paper bag I was using to detect whether fragments made it through. Even after taking one round of .223 and three rounds of 7.62x39mm, the plate stopped ten rounds of .40 S&W. I'd say that's pretty good for stuff you can buy at Walmart. I prefer my purpose built steel, NIJ rated Level III plates but I think this shows real promise for field expedient body armor. Depending on how future tests go, I'm tempted to make up a few sets to keep in the truck and to hand out to friends and family if SHTF.
 
I misinterpreted what I saw on the video. I thought you fired one round of X39, it had a clean entry and was deflected up to the left traveling between the ceramic plates or something. I figured they must have been pretty well shattered before it hit for that to happen. If it was three rounds in top left that is a bit different.
One thing the military looks at is multiple hits on a single location, although I don't think the standard for it is very high. I wonder if enough ceramic shards remain in an area to fragment the bullet on a second hit.
 
interesting, i bet you would get even better performance if you bedded fiberglass, carbon fiber or kevlar scrim cloth in the herculiner between plates. Something to think about.
 
This is incorrect, a problem with wiki is that there is no real control over who posts what. That weakness is a strength too, but you gota know it's not all accurate.

The Army never adopted Dragon Skin.
Click to expand...

LOL, Wiki is correct. The military had the armor. No claim was made that they adopted it, but they had it, tested it, it failed, and they booted it. The problem was QC and Dragon Skin could not demonstrate that they could maintain QC...plus as noted, it was hugely expensive.

The third round of 7.62x39mm was definitely stopped and I think the first two were also, but the corner of the plate had bent back enough to damage the paper bag I was using to detect whether fragments made it through
Click to expand...

Still, impressive performance given the materials, simplicity of the design, etc.
 
johnwilliamson062, once I settle on a design, I'd like to test it with more powerful cartridges like 7.62x51mm and with multiple hits near the same spot. Ultimately, that doesn't matter as much to me because if it can stop two or three rounds of an intermediate cartridge, that's pretty useful. To paraphrase a response to Gecko45: If plan A is taking multiple hits to the chest from a high power rifle, maybe it's time for a plan B.

wooly booger, I was thinking of using fiberglass and I probably will if the next test goes poorly. I have some Kevlar that I could use but I'd like the design to be something that anybody can get, anywhere, under almost any conditions. When you're roaming the nuclear wastes of New Vegas and you come across some grade V floor tile in a filing cabinet in the Robco building, you'll know what to do. Kevlar is readily available and fairly inexpensive on eBay but you don't normally find it in Wally World or Home Depot.

ETA: So when I pulled the "plate" off the grocery bag I had it sitting on to dry, the bed liner peeled right off the cutting board. I roughed it up with a wire wheel and reapplied the bed liner.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top