High school students don't understand the 1st Amendment

May gawd help us all

So who here has a kid in publik skul? And if so, what are you doing to ensure that the district emphasizes accurate civics lessons in the school your child attends, including instruction on the 2A and 1A? I ask because I have no kids. And what gives...I thought school boards were dominated by liberals who dream up no-tolerance policies and such - you'd think they'd give emphasis to the 1A. I guess they're just generic fascists with no particular traditional political bent - they're "conservative" when it suits them - random locker searches for drugs, and "liberal" when it suits them - eliminating teaching on the 2A in civics, etc. Damn I hate the 2 major pol parties.
 
I don't think I have ever read a topic or post here where one post actually changed someone's mind or persuaded them to take a different position on something. It's funny how politics differ from other subjects.
 
It doesn't happen very often, but it happens. I think that usually it's an incremental shift in thought though and not an epiphany.. :)
 
bikenjam wrote in part:

" not to dissagree with K_dawg, or sound like an anti-gunner, but the states do have the legal right to regulate arms. Not the central government like they currently do. "A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State.....".

*******

I believe that would depend on whether or not the states had been "included" in the strictures laid upon the federal government by the constitution. Also, I think that the 14th amendment might be germane.

This aside, and respecting what was had from these hight school students, it appears as if the schools are doing a very poor job of educating the citizenry, or future citizenry of this country, which looking at the amount of money spent by the taxpayers, is something that strikes me as terribly sad. A great deal of the blame for this situation must, of course, be laid in the laps of the mothers and fathers of these kids.

When I was a kid, quite a long time ago, my father and I used to talk, often we argued with each other, but there was contact and an exchange of thoughts and ideas. Has this srt of interaction gone out of fashion these days?
 
I see the 10th and 14th Amendments as being at odds with each other. I mean ... I think if we give the 14th a narrow construction such that it is only intended to protect racial equality under the law then that can work. But, to use the 14th to give the US jurisdiction over "rights" is, IMHO, insanity. A limited federal government doesn't have jurisdiction over "rights".

It has been my experience that nearly everyone has a view of the Bill of Rights which is simply false in that it defies the Tenth Amendment. After all, the Tenth is the "States' Rights Amendment" and people love to say that States don't have rights. But the Tenth Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights and it seems to me that any valid view of the BOR must respect the Tenth.

I find most people have an extremist 14th "Amendment" view which they mistakenly call "the Bill of Rights". The 14th "Amendment" is not the Bill of Rights. The 14th "Amendment" also failed every step of the amendment process and was implemented by force. Personally, I do not respect the validity of contracts signed at gunpoint.

To focus on the 2nd Amendment, I believe that it left gun control powers with the States. Some say that the 14th changed that, but the SCOTUS has yet to say so. I think having the feds assume jurisdiction over our individual RKBA would kill the original intent. I believe if we are going to do such a thing then it should require a Constitutional amendment which specifically delegates authority/jurisdiction over gun control from the States to the US - I don't think 3/4 of the States desire such a thing.
 
Surely, this can not be true - we have had a "Republican" in the WH for 4 years, and a now have a "Republican" dominated Congress ;)

But notice who is fielding this story - throwing it out for initial exposure, and then debate - the "we-hate-bush-oppose-the-war-liberal-media".

Typical m.o.
 
break it down now......

Why are the students not getting this important teaching on American Government and American History..........? My guess is that the Administration folks more so than the teachers don't like it........and whom decides what gets taught? Is it that about 75% of the big university teaching staff are liberals? I think so....... You know just on Monday I asked my kids (3) ages between 10 - 14 if any of them had any talk in class about the election process and success in Iraq. I hate to tell you they all said no... Not one word of any of it was spoke, taught or slightly brushed on. Is that one sad word for our education system. I must also note: This is in a very good district according to the State's education system. Am I missing something here or did the train blow it's whistle many times before leaving the station with nobody on board?????????? :confused:
 
jefnvk said:
You try to get an honest survey out of high school kids. It can't be done.
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Interesting idea, and it's reasonable to think that some respondents lied. However, I don't think it's enough to make a difference. Not many highschool students are going to want to skew impersonal surveys about non-social activites. There's amusement value in seeing that 100% of highscool students smoke 5 packs a day, do heroin at breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and drink 20 ounces of whiskey a day. Most high-school students are not terribly amused by inaccurate statistics about political issues.
 
Also a good point. I was just wanted to point out that surveys usually didn't get honest answers where I went. If you are going to waste my fun class time doing surveys, I'm gonna waste your time answering stupid. Although I'm sure that is not always the case.

So who here has a kid in publik skul?
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Judging from most people here, I must have grown up in a good school district. We learned about the constitution and BOR every grade from about 4 to 8, and 11. I will say that no special emphasis was put on the 2nd, just as it wasn't put on the 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10th. They were all taugth as one inseperable unit, each as important as the next. After the 10th, it started getting to be a pick and choose, but I could recite the first ten from memory.

No, the school boards wern't dominated by liberals that dremt up zero-tolerance policies. Yes, we had zero-tolerance policies, but they wern't really zero-tolerance policies. In that one day, I had noticed I had my knife with me, told a teacher, and their response was pretty much 'If you aren't going to hurt someone with it, why would I care?'. My senior year, I pretty much got to the point where I didn't care about school, I'd leave my Buck 110 on the dashboard every day. I'd routinely carry a Gerber multi-tool. No one cared.

As for the random locker searches, that was not an issue. The school let us know right up front that the lockers were their property, anything we didn't want searched, leave out of there. Somehow, when using others property, and when you have been warned, I fail to see how that is illegal.
 
Somehow, when using others property, and when you have been warned, I fail to see how that is illegal.
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At the risk of running off-topic... if it was a public school, nothing there is really the school's property. It's public property, because it's paid for by government-collected funds. Only individuals and private organizations can dictate rules on their property.
 
I burned a U.S. flag about two months ago. It was the flag that had flown outside my house for the last couple of years. It was neatly folded and properly burned in a respectful fashion. I burned it respectfully because it symbolized a nation that still allowed people to burn its brethren disrespectfully. The moment this country makes it illegal to burn a flag in a disrespectful fashion is the moment I go to Wally World to buy a flag, a Bic, and some lighter fluid.
 
Well guys I am lucky to have a kid in grade school (5th Grade), And I mean lucky because some of his teachers are Big time GOP and Pro-Gun. I know this because I have met them out side of school, by coincidence out at the rifle range! My kids current teacher has been covering the first ten ammendments in a bit more detail than most techers ever do. When at work they do not take sides, but away from the class room they are trully devoted to the cause. NOT BAD FOR PUBLIC SCHOOL. And in Southern KALIFORNIA TOO!!!
Did I mention these five Instructors are female too? :)

Since my son was born in 1994 I have kept a journal of things I'd one day like to talk to my kid about, and now that he is almost eleven he seems to understand some of the subjects I talk to him about. So, recently I started talking to him about issues regarding the government, politics and just life in general, I could'nt believe he had already formed some opinions about certain things at his young age! Lucky for me he enjoys and agrees with alot of the things I belive in most of the time.

Have you talked to your kids lately? NO? So, what are you waiting for, for some one else to plant ideas in his/her head!! Don't just blame the school system, do something about it yourself and talk to your kids!!! :mad:
Teaching begins at home!
 
Samuel2001 wrote in part:

Have you talked to your kids lately? NO? So, what are you waiting for, for some one else to plant ideas in his/her head!! Don't just blame the school system, do something about it yourself and talk to your kids!!!
Teaching begins at home!

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Very aptly put, with pointers that all to many "parents" fail to consider. Speaking for myself, I never became involved in the child creating, child raising, being a parent business, firstly and most importanttly for emotional reasons. Besides, I never did think that I had within myself, whatever it takes to make a proper parent/father, in my case. This aside, there is a lot more involved in being a parent than merely joining in what used to be referred to as "sexual congress", otherwise known as "getting it on", "screwing" or "fornication".

It strikes me, looking at some of the kids one sees about, that a great many other "adults" were about/are as poorly equipped emotionally as I was, the problem being that while I realized what my failings were, at least in some cases, and I'm not the smartest guy around, many others never did, and haven't yet. It shows too.
 
The flag burn issue to me is real opened and closed.........

To dispose of a flag with respect a set of rules and process is documented. If you need the information go visit your local VFW or American Legion. I think most of these places do it. My daughter's school had a ceremony and the VFW guys did it. Very well done and respectful education even to adults.
Now if you tell me you think it's ok to burn it as (protest) idea of a freedom you have and earned by being a citizen of this great nation........ Well, sir or mam you make me ill............ and I consider you ignorant of what your actions will do to a Mother or Father or Family member of a combat wounded or killed service member..........BUT that won't bother some........ya, go ahead and show us how militant you can be and burn Old Glory.......... USOB

I can be sure those of us Vets and Patriots see you doing it we will tell you either in verbal form or body motions what we think of you too... and later as you drive home and get a flat you might as well start walking for home cause this Vet won't be stopping to help ya.......yep - I hold a grudge
 
Now if you tell me you think it's ok to burn it as (protest) idea of a freedom you have and earned by being a citizen of this great nation........ Well, sir or mam you make me ill............ and I consider you ignorant of what your actions will do to a Mother or Father or Family member of a combat wounded or killed service member.
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Few burn the flag that you see burning.

You shouldn't speak for service members or their relatives. Not all of them match your stereotype.

A veteran you may be, but I consider you as ignorant as you consider me.

The flag is just a piece of cloth. You see in it certain positive values, but the person next to you might see in it completely different, negative values: the horrors of racism prior to the civil rights era; the abuses of the BATFE; the horrors of the welfare state; a legislature that's run off of its constitutional tracks; a court system that abuses justice rather than dispensing it... the list goes on.
 
back at ya........your it.........

Have you served in your countries military service? Thanks if you have.... What branch if I could ask? What duty did you spend your time at? It's ok if you wish not to answer any of my questions....

I never said I was smart did I.........? Heck only have 2 years of liberal college education so I'm sure you got me there too.......oh darn. . . :)

I speak for myself and my brother's and sister's who served yesterday, today, and the future..... So don't tell me not to speak for other service members and their family........ I have lost family members while in service to this great nation....If you have I salute you but you sicken me by understanding my words above; said nothing of social issues, politics, or the fact welfare bothers you..... I stated MY thoughts of flag burning.....and your right it is cloth - I tend to hold it for the good it represents.... See I think I live day by day looking at the good of citizens here and what they try to bring to our way of life... To look at only the gloom and doom - well, I will let other's handle that....... I never remember anyone telling me life was going to be fair....... Sure is nice to play the game of life in a free nation....

I do respect your ideas just not all of them....... Peace........... :D
 
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