High capacity magazines
- Thread starter randersonabq
- Start date
another point to consider....
When the 94 AWB became law, along with its 10rnd limit for new mag capacity, do you know what one of the unintended consequences was?
Service class pistols, ones that were designed to have 13, 15, 17, etc.. round mags now could only be sold with mags that held 10rnds. Same size as the so called "hi cap" mags, but only 10 rnds.
There were two entirely predictable responses by the gun makers and shooting public. Grandfathered "hi cap" mags saw a huge increase in price (constant demand, limited supply - basic capitalism) and gun makers came out with models having smaller gripframes (balanced with shorter slides) to take the smaller 10rnd mags.
They called them "compact" versions. And you know what? To the gun banner's horror, the smaller, compact versions were easier to conceal!
One result of the "hi cap" ban was a flood of smaller, more easily concealable pistols. Instead of rendering the service size pistols less likely to be "on the street" what it did was actually increase the number of more easily concealable handguns availabe to the public! Somehow, I don't think that was what the "hi-cap" banners had in mind.
When the 94 AWB became law, along with its 10rnd limit for new mag capacity, do you know what one of the unintended consequences was?
Service class pistols, ones that were designed to have 13, 15, 17, etc.. round mags now could only be sold with mags that held 10rnds. Same size as the so called "hi cap" mags, but only 10 rnds.
There were two entirely predictable responses by the gun makers and shooting public. Grandfathered "hi cap" mags saw a huge increase in price (constant demand, limited supply - basic capitalism) and gun makers came out with models having smaller gripframes (balanced with shorter slides) to take the smaller 10rnd mags.
They called them "compact" versions. And you know what? To the gun banner's horror, the smaller, compact versions were easier to conceal!
One result of the "hi cap" ban was a flood of smaller, more easily concealable pistols. Instead of rendering the service size pistols less likely to be "on the street" what it did was actually increase the number of more easily concealable handguns availabe to the public! Somehow, I don't think that was what the "hi-cap" banners had in mind.
freedash22
New member
Magazine Capacities
I want to have guns with high-capacity magazines because they give me the advantage (more rounds) in an emergency situation. And in an emergency situation where my life is on the line, and I have more than 1 aggressor, I don't want to be fair, I want to have the advantage.
Even with proper training, I know I will sometimes miss thus having more rounds gives me some room for error in an intense situation.
I know some people are extremely well-skilled and can do great with fewer rounds but I have yet to reach that level so there you go.
I want to have guns with high-capacity magazines because they give me the advantage (more rounds) in an emergency situation. And in an emergency situation where my life is on the line, and I have more than 1 aggressor, I don't want to be fair, I want to have the advantage.
Even with proper training, I know I will sometimes miss thus having more rounds gives me some room for error in an intense situation.
I know some people are extremely well-skilled and can do great with fewer rounds but I have yet to reach that level so there you go.
Home defense is one of the big ones. It isn't always just one guy breaking into your home, sometimes its 3 or 5. These things just have a way of happening.
You have 5 guys and 7 rounds in the gun, you better hope your really good with whatever 7 rounds you have. Personally for a home defense weapon I want as many bullets ready to go as I can manage. 30 rounds of .223 and I like my odds a lot better against 5 people trying to do me harm. I don't want it to be a fair fight.
In any case I live in a fairly pro-gun state, and I don't think we will ever get to the sort of situation new york is in. This is a place where if you shoot a home invader, you did the right thing.
You have 5 guys and 7 rounds in the gun, you better hope your really good with whatever 7 rounds you have. Personally for a home defense weapon I want as many bullets ready to go as I can manage. 30 rounds of .223 and I like my odds a lot better against 5 people trying to do me harm. I don't want it to be a fair fight.
In any case I live in a fairly pro-gun state, and I don't think we will ever get to the sort of situation new york is in. This is a place where if you shoot a home invader, you did the right thing.
randersonabq said:
Answer your own question. Why do you 'need' 7 rounds when a lot of people have 5-shot revolvers?
The premise of the question is that whatever the person who poses the question happens to want is automatically valid beyond question, but what others might want has to be justified in some way. It would be difficult to find a perspective on life that conveys a more self-centered and arrogant sense of personal entitlement.
If more Americans were truly familiar with the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the Federalist Papers they would realize the true purpose of the Second Amendment. I own 5 and 10 round magazines for my AR15 rifles specifically for hunting. I am allowed to hunt with a semi automatic rifle, but am restricted to the number of rounds it can carry and be legal for taking game. I also own standard 30 round mags because that's what they were issued with. Most every hunting rifle made today is based on a previous, or current military design. That goes for all your bolt action rifles as well as semi autos. The same can be said for handguns. I own them because it is my right to do so. I collect military style rifles as well as older military rifles. All are legal and many have standard capacity magazines exceeding 10 rounds. I have no intention of surrendering my Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms so some politician can say they are doing something to stem gun violence. I strongly believe firearms should be kept in a gun safe and out of the hands of crazies and criminals of which I am neither.
I was going to start this with the statement that you sir are a fool however I found that opening judgmental in nature and probably something a Christian man should not do. I do not believe you are a fool but I do believe you are foolish to believe limiting the capacity of magazines will have any effect on the violent nature of the United States.
Are you aware that more Americans are killed with hammers every year than are killed with long guns? Are you aware a very small number of those killed with long guns are killed with "assault weapons" with high capacity magazines?
The recent killings are a tragedy for the nation but all of them have been carried out by people in the mental health system who legally should not have had any gun "assault weapon" or otherwise. Indeed, going back for years even to Columbine these are people known to someone to have mental health issues yet were not receiving adequate help or supervision. These people kill with no regard to victim or weapon, whether stabbing a family to death or burning them to death in their home or shooting children in their classroom.
http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index.ssf/2013/01/harrison_man_accused_of_killin.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...mental-illness-apartment-building-west-family
Nobody would ask the federal government to ban hammers or register them or limit their weight or length because the hammers are not the problem. We should not be attempting to limit the rights of law abiding citizens with respect to what firearms they can own or how many cartridges they should be allowed to carry because the guns, magazines and cartridges are not the problem.
If you truly want to have an impact, lobby for a reexamination of the societal issues leading to these mental health problems and mental health system which is allowing mentally ill people to roam our streets killing our citizens with nary a care from our government until they do something like this. Then everyone wonders why and how this could happen and blames the guns or magazines and wants feel good legislation which will have zero to negligible impact because while it may make you feel good it does not address the problem.
Are you aware that more Americans are killed with hammers every year than are killed with long guns? Are you aware a very small number of those killed with long guns are killed with "assault weapons" with high capacity magazines?
The recent killings are a tragedy for the nation but all of them have been carried out by people in the mental health system who legally should not have had any gun "assault weapon" or otherwise. Indeed, going back for years even to Columbine these are people known to someone to have mental health issues yet were not receiving adequate help or supervision. These people kill with no regard to victim or weapon, whether stabbing a family to death or burning them to death in their home or shooting children in their classroom.
http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/index.ssf/2013/01/harrison_man_accused_of_killin.html
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...mental-illness-apartment-building-west-family
Nobody would ask the federal government to ban hammers or register them or limit their weight or length because the hammers are not the problem. We should not be attempting to limit the rights of law abiding citizens with respect to what firearms they can own or how many cartridges they should be allowed to carry because the guns, magazines and cartridges are not the problem.
If you truly want to have an impact, lobby for a reexamination of the societal issues leading to these mental health problems and mental health system which is allowing mentally ill people to roam our streets killing our citizens with nary a care from our government until they do something like this. Then everyone wonders why and how this could happen and blames the guns or magazines and wants feel good legislation which will have zero to negligible impact because while it may make you feel good it does not address the problem.
Guys, do not try to rationalize with the anti-gunners. They will take every inch you give and then take another foot. they will find a way to twist every statement or fact you offer.
Don't reason with them and try to justify it with irrelevant issues like hunting, target shooting, or anything else.
The reason is simple. The 2nd amendment exists so that we possess the ability to fight for our freedoms if the need arises. And we are allowed weaponry with the ability to do so.
When they develop Hand-Phasers I want one of those too
Don't reason with them and try to justify it with irrelevant issues like hunting, target shooting, or anything else.
The reason is simple. The 2nd amendment exists so that we possess the ability to fight for our freedoms if the need arises. And we are allowed weaponry with the ability to do so.
When they develop Hand-Phasers I want one of those too
It is because the 2nd Amendment is about using guns for military, not sporting purposes. Those who think otherwise, miss the point.
In the event of war, a large capacity magazine in a military rifle is a requisite for establishing superiority of fire. The side with the superiority of fire will prevail on the battle field.
That is why we "need" them. Because all civilizations have eventually collapsed, been invaded and or, disappeared. It is not a matter of if that will happen to us, it is a matter of when.
dahermit, your statement is correct. Civilizations as defined don't usually last very long and although easy-listening history lessons try to cite the cause of most downfalls as the result of some grand military victory, like Rome falling to the hords after being weakened by decades of decadent revelry. The reality is that they more often simply slowly changed from one civilization into another new civilization.
They say the Romans became so powerful because of how they offered citizenship to the common man, a place in the civilization regardless of origin. I would say that the same thing combined with new peoples being accepted into the body but being allowed to keep their old cultural beliefs what did them in.
As long as America continues to not only respect, but actually accommodate other cultures we in essence create a situation of co-habitation. Multiple cultures living together, multiple religions living in harmony. It sounds great unless intolerance is allowed to take root. Then the apple cart is all upset. When one group can't respect another then we got a problem.
That's what we have now in America. We have groups who's beliefs are so polarized that they can't leave each other alone. No live and let live, no just get along. So now everything is about who can pass laws to force the others to do it their way.
America was born in freedom, but it is being destroyed in tyranny. It is happening slowly as it always does and when the point of balance shifts far enough then one good kick will send it falling.
At that point the most powerful war machine ever assembled will be in the hands of monsters and the world will again go to war.
They say the Romans became so powerful because of how they offered citizenship to the common man, a place in the civilization regardless of origin. I would say that the same thing combined with new peoples being accepted into the body but being allowed to keep their old cultural beliefs what did them in.
As long as America continues to not only respect, but actually accommodate other cultures we in essence create a situation of co-habitation. Multiple cultures living together, multiple religions living in harmony. It sounds great unless intolerance is allowed to take root. Then the apple cart is all upset. When one group can't respect another then we got a problem.
That's what we have now in America. We have groups who's beliefs are so polarized that they can't leave each other alone. No live and let live, no just get along. So now everything is about who can pass laws to force the others to do it their way.
America was born in freedom, but it is being destroyed in tyranny. It is happening slowly as it always does and when the point of balance shifts far enough then one good kick will send it falling.
At that point the most powerful war machine ever assembled will be in the hands of monsters and the world will again go to war.
Its not a question of need. If you are not a criminal and want to shoot hi cap mags why not.
Do you "need" a car that goes 100 miles per hour? I guarantee more people get killed by vehicles and alcohol than guns every year! Do I hear anyone wanting to ban cars or booze?
Its a slippery slope when your socialist president starts deciding what YOU need.
Do you "need" a car that goes 100 miles per hour? I guarantee more people get killed by vehicles and alcohol than guns every year! Do I hear anyone wanting to ban cars or booze?
Its a slippery slope when your socialist president starts deciding what YOU need.
Every time this comes up I wish we would instantly wave our hands in the air and yell:
All Right!!! Let's Play the "NOBODY NEEDS GAME"!!!!!
Jet ski's, snow ski's, sailboats, private airplanes, sports cars, college football, red meat, flower gardens, dogs, cats, pets...etc. etc.
Until the world is PERFECT you have to spend the time and money you would have spent on any of the above on making it PERFECT for EVERYBODY!
That's 'reasonable' and 'sensible' isn't it?
All Right!!! Let's Play the "NOBODY NEEDS GAME"!!!!!
Jet ski's, snow ski's, sailboats, private airplanes, sports cars, college football, red meat, flower gardens, dogs, cats, pets...etc. etc.
Until the world is PERFECT you have to spend the time and money you would have spent on any of the above on making it PERFECT for EVERYBODY!
That's 'reasonable' and 'sensible' isn't it?
There absolutely is a need for a 30 round magazine such as a Glock or an AR-15 has.
The reason is to match the 30 round magazine that an M-4 has.
Never miss the point. The second amendment was written for one purpose. It was written so that the people of this nation would possess the ability to fight if necessary. That implies killing.
I would hope that prevailing in a conflict was implied and that symbolic gestures of resistance were not the full scope of their intent.
The reason is to match the 30 round magazine that an M-4 has.
Never miss the point. The second amendment was written for one purpose. It was written so that the people of this nation would possess the ability to fight if necessary. That implies killing.
I would hope that prevailing in a conflict was implied and that symbolic gestures of resistance were not the full scope of their intent.
My Springfield Armory XDM 9mm uses 19 round magazines. It works flawlessly. My Yugoslavian AK-47 has never, ever misfired, had ejection issues or failed to feed the next round reliably using a 30rd Bulgarian surplus magazine. I have never once thought that high capacity magazines were any trouble at all. YMMV.
Hstorically inaccurate. From the dawn of agriculture, when humans stopped living egalitarian and semi-nomadic lives, people have been at almost constant war with one another over resources and territory. It is far more rare that a society would slowly fade into another one. The moment a city state becomes too weak, another culture capitalizes on that weakness and conquers them.
I didn't look through every page but I did not see it on the first page.
The reason I WANT HC magazines has nothing to do with hunting, range time, or anything else.
Simply, it is for military action against attackers. Let's say zombies
The very reason the 2 ammendment was written was to keep the government in check.
While I can understand the laws against a LAWS rocket being owned by the citizentry let's make no mistake about WHY the 2A was written.
It was to keep the government aware that its citizenry was well armed. Armed enough to form a well regulated militia against the government if need be. So that tyranny would never take hold in this nation again.
WHY was the 2A written?
Because King George was having his troops kick down your front door and you had to give them quarter. They ate the homeowners food. And in some cases raped wives and daughters. Thus the 4th amendment.
Remember, THIS COUNTRY has been through tyranny before. Our homes and our women were violated by the current military of the time.
The 2 amendment was written so this would NEVER happen again.
BECAUSE IT HAPPENED ALREADY! And you say these things could not happen today? Ask the news reporter that covered a story in Egypt.
Ask women in England where ownership of firearms is illegal and there are Muslim "no go" zones where white people better not show up. Men are beaten and women are raped. TODAY, in 2013, in a Western country, because they are unarmed. This happens in MANY modern western countries.
So why do I want HC magazines? Mostly from a practical stand point so when I go to the range I can shoot a lot.
BUT...from a theoretical stand point...I want my government to know that the citizenry have them. So that military members know that many millions have them. So that if an order to subjugate the citizenry ever comes from the government…..troops will think twice before following that order.
And if they did follow that order....the people will win. 300 million guns are in America. And I want bigger, more powerful firearms so the government will know.....DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!
The reason I WANT HC magazines has nothing to do with hunting, range time, or anything else.
Simply, it is for military action against attackers. Let's say zombies
The very reason the 2 ammendment was written was to keep the government in check.
While I can understand the laws against a LAWS rocket being owned by the citizentry let's make no mistake about WHY the 2A was written.
It was to keep the government aware that its citizenry was well armed. Armed enough to form a well regulated militia against the government if need be. So that tyranny would never take hold in this nation again.
WHY was the 2A written?
Because King George was having his troops kick down your front door and you had to give them quarter. They ate the homeowners food. And in some cases raped wives and daughters. Thus the 4th amendment.
Remember, THIS COUNTRY has been through tyranny before. Our homes and our women were violated by the current military of the time.
The 2 amendment was written so this would NEVER happen again.
BECAUSE IT HAPPENED ALREADY! And you say these things could not happen today? Ask the news reporter that covered a story in Egypt.
Ask women in England where ownership of firearms is illegal and there are Muslim "no go" zones where white people better not show up. Men are beaten and women are raped. TODAY, in 2013, in a Western country, because they are unarmed. This happens in MANY modern western countries.
So why do I want HC magazines? Mostly from a practical stand point so when I go to the range I can shoot a lot.
BUT...from a theoretical stand point...I want my government to know that the citizenry have them. So that military members know that many millions have them. So that if an order to subjugate the citizenry ever comes from the government…..troops will think twice before following that order.
And if they did follow that order....the people will win. 300 million guns are in America. And I want bigger, more powerful firearms so the government will know.....DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!