Hi vs. Lo brass - the myth

D

darkgael

New member
It's raining. I can't get to the range. So...I went and lined up some shotshells and took this picture.
HivsLobrass.jpg

The point of it and of this post is that I've heard many times about how high brass shells are for hunting and low brass shells are for target work. (I'm not talking about how hulls can be reloaded.)
Fairly recently I went into a gun shop to buy a box of shells for some grouse and pheasant hunting. "Well, you are going to need high brass for hunting."
And the fellow proceeded to sell me Remington Heavy Dove loads. That was OK with me. Those, if you don't know already, are the ones on the far right in the picture.
The two shells with the Highest brass are both target loads. The black hull is a Winchester target load. The second in from the left is a 900fps Federal subsonic load. The third one in is a Winchester "feather" load, also subsonic. The two on the far right - both hunting loads - are heavy dove from Federal and Remington. Notice the brass. The heaviest load at 3 1/4 dram eq. is the Activ "high brass" dove and target load on the far left. Kinda middle brass compared to the Winchester and the Federal subsonic.
There are a lot of hunting loads that use high brass (and I can't think of an express load that uses low brass), but not all by any means.
Pete
 
Based on OLD methodology, low brass WAS for targets, while hi-brass was for hunting, especially waterfowl.

Most of that was based on old technology and hull making.

Some of the current Kemen target loads have brass higher than normal, making them a PITA to reload.

Would be nice to see the old ACTIV hulls make a comeback
 
Would be nice to see the old ACTIV hulls make a comeback​
Let's not forget the Wandas and Herters brassless shells.
 
bring ACTIV hulls back ....that old steel junk .....
and Zippy wanting to make our Shotguns out of "Glock Tupperware" ....

Holy Cow ...you guys !!

Its a good thing the weekend is coming ....I need a drink ...to steady my twitch...:rolleyes:
 
I need a drink ...to steady my twitch...
​
Relax Big Guy, we aren't going to ask you to shoot a Tupperware stock or load transparent hulls.

I don't remember if they were the first 1-oz loads or some super-lights, there used to be some Double-A hulls that had low base brass that was less than 1/16" high. One look at that hull and you knew the brass wasn't contributing much. In the old days of the paper hulls, the brass was a structural part of the tube. These days it's prime function is to hold the primer in place because the metal does it better that plastic.
 
BJP, I am 3 glasses deep in a jug of homewade mine:D It is a raw 2 weeks old but has a right fine finish... The finish tomorrow will be like a smoky burnout as it is "first run" and CLOUDY!!! But it is many notches above jail house "buck".;)
Brent
 
The metal base also give the extractor something to hold on to. Todays plastic hulls are very good, but if the whole hull was made of the same plastic the extractors would pull through the rim.
 
I have a book steel shot reload i do. If you load it in a high brass hull it never locks up the action on the old 870. Load the exact same load in the same hull with a low brass and about 20% lock up the gun. Some say high brass/low brass makes no difference, If that was true would the big ammo companys use high brass hulls? They would load everything in a low or mid brass hull to save $0.00000000005 per hull.
 
baltz526, high/low brass does make a big difference when reloading. What re-loader are you using, and is the re-sizer (if present) set properly? It could be caching the high brass and missing the low. That might explain your 20% lock up problem.
Hey, I though you used a 10-bore, whatz up with the old 870?
 
If your SuperSizer is like mine, there's some degree of adjustment. Have you considered tightening it up a bit on the low base brass?
 
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it is not sizing that causes the issue, it is pressure. high brass just ejects better when shooting high pressure loads. that is why it is made.
 
brass

Oneounce:
Based on OLD methodology, low brass WAS for targets, while hi-brass was for hunting, especially waterfowl.
Click to expand...

When did that break between old and new occur, sorta kinda when?

Pete
Also - to hijack my own thread - I shot my first round of skeet last Wednesday. Great fun. This shotgun stuff....I've gotta watch out. It could be catching.
P
 
darkgael said:
I shot my first round of skeet last Wednesday.
Click to expand...
Congratulations! You gotta admit, you were thinking to yourself, "I should have done this a long time ago."
Great fun. This shotgun stuff....I've gotta watch out. It could be catching.
Click to expand...
Yep, Skeetitis is extremely contagious, but it's a chance ya just gotta take ;)
In the shooting sports, it don't mean a thing if you ain't gotta swing.
 
It is not the plastic that causes the stuck hull, it is the brass washed steel base. A taller brass washed steel base spreads this pressure caused expansion out over a larger area. High brass causes more reliable extraction on high pressure hunting loads.
 
again

You gotta admit, you were thinking to yourself, "I should have done this a long time ago."
Click to expand...

Mostly, I was thinking "I gotta do this again!". Very similar to the reaction that I had to my first rounds of Trap and Sporting Clays a few weeks ago.
Pete
 
High Base/Low Brass & Low Base/High Brass was from the early days with paper hulls and Black Powder. If the top of the baseewad and the top of the brass were the same point, sometimes hull burn-through happened. The Low Base hulls had more room (heavy loads) and used High Brass. That's cerried through to today, even though there isn't any rationale for it any longer (except the perception that High Brass = High Power).

DC
 
Oneounceload commented:
Based on OLD methodology, low brass WAS for targets, while hi-brass was for hunting, especially waterfowl.

Darkgael asked:
When did that break between old and new occur, sorta kinda when?
Click to expand...
It's a holdover from the days of brass reinforced paper hulls. The present generation has grown-up with plastic hulls. Like having the "Dram Equivalent" on a shell box (in addition to the load weight and velocity), having different high and low brass (or simulated brass) bases is an unnecessary link to the past.

baltz526 remarked:
It is not the plastic that causes the stuck hull, it is the brass washed steel base. A taller brass washed steel base spreads this pressure caused expansion out over a larger area.
Click to expand...
You're missing something.
With expanding gases, the tendency is to distribute the increasing force equally in all directions. Consider a toy balloon, and draw two squares on it: One twice the area of the other. The larger square will resist twice the total load as the small one, but they are both at the same pressure (unit stress). Change the balloon's pressure and the change in radius will the same for both squares.

Think of the hull as a balloon and the high and low brass as the squares. No matter how high the brass, the unit stress will be the same. There is no "a taller brass washed steel base spreads this pressure over a larger area" -- the load is already equally distributed. Since deflection/expansion is proportional to unit stress, not the total load, high brass or low brass will experience the same deflection at a given pressure.
 
Go load some 11,600psi loads in a low brass federal top gun paper base hull and in some federal high brass paper base hunting hulls. Then explain to us all how high brass hulls do not cause better extraction. Reality is high brass works exactly like i posted above, Simple physics.
 
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