Hi-Point and Russian steel bullets makes a nice zip gun
- Thread starter gusss
- Start date
lets just say this. with the current gun climate and pliticians making every effort to pass backdoor gun controls on anything that sounds "scary". if the wolf/tula,monarch had any real amor piercing capabilities, they would have found a way to ban it buy now. especial with the popularity of ak/ar pistols. any kind of pointy high velocity FMJ is going to penetrate better than modern hollow-points, but there are a gazzilion of videos of ak's and ar's and even steel "core" bullets getting stopped dead on AR500 plates. in my opinion, the only middle-weight bullet on the market right now that have decent armor penetrating qualities are the standard .223 
enetrator" rounds. the best available full-power AP round that is still available is surplus 7.52x54r with a soft-steel core. if you can find the old black tip 30-06 bullets for sale anywhere, that's your best bet without going to big bore rifle, but I have never seen the pulled bullets for sale anymore. I think the .22TCM has great potential as possibly the best pistol AP round because of it's small size and high velocity, although I haven't seen a lot of testing in that department yet, probably since it has yet to be a very popularized round. the 5.45x39 was great piercer, again because of high velocity, small size and a true steel core. but unfortunately, it has been deemed illegal buy distorting the AP laws, being a sub .22 caliber center-fire, it doesn't actually fall into the AP law, but laws don't stand for much in the gun world anymore when it comes to banning things.
enetrator" rounds. the best available full-power AP round that is still available is surplus 7.52x54r with a soft-steel core. if you can find the old black tip 30-06 bullets for sale anywhere, that's your best bet without going to big bore rifle, but I have never seen the pulled bullets for sale anymore. I think the .22TCM has great potential as possibly the best pistol AP round because of it's small size and high velocity, although I haven't seen a lot of testing in that department yet, probably since it has yet to be a very popularized round. the 5.45x39 was great piercer, again because of high velocity, small size and a true steel core. but unfortunately, it has been deemed illegal buy distorting the AP laws, being a sub .22 caliber center-fire, it doesn't actually fall into the AP law, but laws don't stand for much in the gun world anymore when it comes to banning things.Omaha-BeenGlockin
New member
I was under the impression that most any rifle bullet--fired from a rifle---would zip right through a Kevlar vest.
Looking back at the original post, I am unclear on what the OP means by "zip gun". That term used to refer to a homemade gun made from essentially a barrel, something to clamp the cartridge into the barrel, a rubber band or spring and some kind of firing pin. Basically, a jail-house gun.
Exactly, skans. Zip guns have (generally) no rifling.
The OP believes that the steel (jacketed) bullets shot the rifling out of his Hi-Point pistol. Several posters (in at least one case, rather rudely, I might add) refuted even the possibility of such a thing.
I've seen stranger things, and most anything is possible when the facts are mostly unknown .... while I do doubt that correctly sized mild steel jacketed bullets could possibly remove the rifling of a properly manufactured .45ACP barrel, I have not seen the bullets or the barrel in question, or even pics ..... something's not right, but I have no evidence as to what it might be .....
The OP believes that the steel (jacketed) bullets shot the rifling out of his Hi-Point pistol. Several posters (in at least one case, rather rudely, I might add) refuted even the possibility of such a thing.
I've seen stranger things, and most anything is possible when the facts are mostly unknown .... while I do doubt that correctly sized mild steel jacketed bullets could possibly remove the rifling of a properly manufactured .45ACP barrel, I have not seen the bullets or the barrel in question, or even pics ..... something's not right, but I have no evidence as to what it might be .....
Talked to HI-Point
I referred to a zip gun as a homemade gun that has no rifling in the barrel. That's what the slugs look like.
*This is a new gun, the condition of the bullets was seen after only 2-3 clips of firing. The barrel is not shot out.
Hi-Point said they do not recommend the steel full metal bullets but would only say that they cause more wear on the gun. They would not comment on the fact the bullets were unscratched by the barrel but said the bullets are not harder than the barrel.
They said there has been problems with the firing pin and using the full metal bullets with steel primers.
I saw a posting defending the steel bullets saying they don't cause more wear on the barrel.
I found a test online with an AR15 type weapon and the steel bullets ate it out prior to the completion of the 10,000 rounds test. The barrel that took the brass bullets was still in good shape.
After WWII and Korea the country was swimming in surplus 45acp ammo. My father was an expert with building all types of 45s. I remember many times he shot out barrels and would put in new ones. He did not shoot steel cased US ammo.
I referred to a zip gun as a homemade gun that has no rifling in the barrel. That's what the slugs look like.
*This is a new gun, the condition of the bullets was seen after only 2-3 clips of firing. The barrel is not shot out.
Hi-Point said they do not recommend the steel full metal bullets but would only say that they cause more wear on the gun. They would not comment on the fact the bullets were unscratched by the barrel but said the bullets are not harder than the barrel.
They said there has been problems with the firing pin and using the full metal bullets with steel primers.
I saw a posting defending the steel bullets saying they don't cause more wear on the barrel.
I found a test online with an AR15 type weapon and the steel bullets ate it out prior to the completion of the 10,000 rounds test. The barrel that took the brass bullets was still in good shape.
After WWII and Korea the country was swimming in surplus 45acp ammo. My father was an expert with building all types of 45s. I remember many times he shot out barrels and would put in new ones. He did not shoot steel cased US ammo.
Bill DeShivs
New member
And you still won't post any pictures...
Double Naught Spy
New member
Yeah, pictures would be nice of fired and unfired bullets. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
No offense, gusss, but usually when folks make extraordinary claims such as you are making, be it in fact or interpretation, there usually something wrong with the claim.
No offense, gusss, but usually when folks make extraordinary claims such as you are making, be it in fact or interpretation, there usually something wrong with the claim.
As I recall, the reason some ranges don't allow bullets with steel components is not because they're illegal, but because of the risk of sparking, and the thought that this might be a fire hazard - more of a risk in the indoor ranges using metallic backstops. No issue with any outdoor range, ASFAIK - certainly not a problem at the outdoor range where I shoot.
Walt Sherrill
New member
At the indoor range where I shoot the issue is, I believe, the salvage value of the bullets. This range has an outside company come in and remove the lead and brass, both of which have value for reuse. (The range owner used to do it himself, but it was a health hazard, and he had to truck it great distances to a firm [in an adjoining state] that would buy their salvage.) The steel bullets must be separated from the lead, and the value of the steel is arguably less than the cost and trouble of removing it from the lead...