Hi-Point and Russian steel bullets makes a nice zip gun

G

gusss

Inactive
I just got a Hi-Point 45acp and tried it out with Academy's Monarch steel ammo. I have a pile of slugs I shot through it in front of me.

Some have NO marks on them from the barrel lands.

Some have HALF of the bullet with slight scratches imprinted in what you would think was dark stains. The other half of the bullet has nothing, no scratches, on them.

Stupid me believed the ammo to be only 'steel cased'. However, the box says "Steel Polymer Coating" which you can see that refers only to the cases. The steel bullets are disguised with a micro coating of brass colored material.

Okay, no more Russian steel! However, a concern is what is called the mythical 'cop killers'.
Obvious these bullets are harder than barrel steel but will they penetrate a vest? Regardless of the status of the 'cop killer bullet' lie I think a law stands prohibiting hardened steel bullets.

I have read that some gun ranges prohibit steel ammo because of this question.


The other side of this is that Hi-Point shipped an oversized out-of-round barrel, which is unlikely, AND nothing is wrong with the ammo.

Other than the ammo issue, this brick is fun to shoot even though it has a terrible trigger, I'll work on that. I like it anyway.
 
Much has been made of steel jackets, copper washed bullets here and on other forums. Asked about it myself when I shot some through my saiga .308. How is it obvious to you the steel jackets are harder than barrel steel? What tests did you use? Because the inner bore has been flame hardened again and again with the firing of ammunition and I've been told and read many times and seen myself in spent bullets that the steel jacket material is very mild and unhardened so I stopped worrying so much about a little bit of barrel life in my AK and what you've gots a hi point. I'd say shoot away with it at the range unless it doesn't function. "Cop killer" bullets, to my awareness are a myth drummed up by gun grabbers. The term was used to describe the Teflon coated bullets being produced at the time. No your steel jackets bullets are not considered "cop killers" and a .45 won't go through Kevlar no matter what bullets you use. Too fat, too slow also, I find your interest in penetrating Kevlar vests a bit disturbing, perhaps a bit childish. Why so much interest in such?
 
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Your ammunition jackets aren't harder than the barrel steel. Have you actually put a magnet on the shot bullets to ascertain they are even steel? Steel jacketed ammunition is very soft.
It's highly unlikely, even for a Hi Point, that you have an oversize barrel.
Bores don't get "flame hardened," either.
 
"Bores don't get "flame hardened," either."
Technical specifics not withstanding I promise that the heat inside the bore does indeed have a hardening effect on its surface. Heat applied to bare steel with a torch will do the same and in 13 years experience with it on a daily basis ive seen that it doesn't take much many times.
 
Technical specifics not withstanding I promise that the heat inside the bore does indeed have a hardening effect on its surface. Heat applied to bare steel with a torch will do the same and in 13 years experience with it on a daily basis ive seen that it doesn't take much many times.
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The barrel has been heat treated to temperatures far in excess of what it will ever experience in firing before it has even left the factory. It is not hardening after the fact.
 
I find your interest in penetrating Kevlar vests a bit disturbing, perhaps a bit childish. Why so much interest in such?
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I can't speak for Gusss, but MY interest in penetrating Kevlar is based on the realization that someone BESIDES the "Good Guys" can have access to body armor. Remember the L.A. Bank of America shoot-out of 1997?
 
Well, let me toss out a welcome to the forum to Gusss.

Could be Gusss figured the bullet steel was harder than the barrel steel because the barrel didn't put any rifling marks in the bullets.

So far, even in the ammo shortage, I've been able to stay with the 'regular' jacketed ammo but I'm glad to know barrel steel is harder. It's a question I probably never would have thought to ask but I'm glad I've got the answer now.

As to the Kevlar question...he might be asking just to be sure he isn't violating some law by having the ammunition. I realize that if the ammo were illegal the store wouldn't have sold it to him but I didn't think the question/comment was out of line.

I shouldn't really be second guessing what Gusss said but what the heck, discussing these things is what we do here and apologies to Gusss if I put any wrong meanings onto your post.
 
Pardon my manners...

By all means, welcome, Gusss. I hope you enjoy this forum. It's filled with a lotta very knowledgeable people who don't take themselves too seriously.
 
Don't worry about it. The Hi-Point can handle it. Google Hi-Point and torture test and you will see this for yourself. Also, the Hi-Point has a lifetime warranty and isn't some custom $2,000 gun tuned for superb accuracy. The steel "jacket" on the bullet is very soft steel. The core is still lead. It' won't harm the barrel.
 
You can't expect too much when shooting cheap ammo in a cheap gun.

Try some good ammo and see what happens
 
Yes, welcome to the forums. Another great thing about it here is there are good people who offer so much useful information and, when someone comes up with something less than accurate, it is corrected. Thank you both bill and tunnelrat, these two gentlemen were right on that part, don't know how it sliped by me that barrels were heat treated first, but there it is. My apologies. Still, if there is ammo you don't like, theres no reason today that you have to use it. I don't like Blazer, I like magtech when I can find it. Enjoy your hi-point and enjoy the forums.
 
FWIW, not all barrels are made of hard steel or heat treated. Most barrels for .22 LR are not hardened because the use of soft lead bullets at relatively low velocity would not justify the cost. That is ordinarily no problem, but every so often someone asks about using a .22 LR barrel for .22 WMR, .22 Hornet, or even .223 or .22-250. Bore-groove diameter always comes up, but the barrel material is seldom mentioned; such a conversion is not a good idea.

Jim
 
gusss said:
The steel bullets are disguised with a micro coating of brass colored material.
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You really believe that you have steel .45 ACP bullets? I would be VERY surprised if you do.

The only Monarch steel-cased ammo at my local Academy is claimed to be 230 grains on the box.

http://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/monarch-153-45-acp-230-grain-centerfire-pistol-ammunition/pid-957603

Since steel is only about 2/3 as dense as lead, a steel bullet would have to be 50% longer than a lead bullet to weigh 230 grains. A typical .45 230 grain FMJ bullet is about .650 in length, which means that a steel 230 grain would be about 1" long. To maintain the same overall cartridge length of about 1.26", that would mean about a 50% loss of case volume, which would make for some interesting (to say the least) gunpowder formulations.

gusss said:
Obvious these bullets are harder than barrel steel
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No way.

I've got a bunch of Monarch .45 steel case ammo that people have given me lying around, I'll try to remember to pull one apart this evening.
 
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To continue

To continue my "childish" interest.

My new Hi-point was just something I bought as a curiosity to see what a $100 45 looked like and functioned.
Rational thinking and the truth does not infect the left anti-gun crowd so I asked about the vest and bullet issue looking for a 'legal' opinion on the status of the bogus laws as they might pertain to these steel slugs.

As far as the Monarch ammo, the bullets are steel cased with a lead core, and they do stick to a magnet.
As far as hardness: I fired rounds through a barrel and they came out without a scratch on them. The bullets are either harder or as hard as the steel barrel. What other conclusion can you draw?

I just tested the 9mm & 223 rounds and the bullets are also steel with the deceptive brass color.

Thanks for the replies.
 
the bullets aren't steel. they would be illegal for sale if they were., they are a steel/copper alloy, and that's just the jacket, the inside is of course lead, taking away any "armor piercing" qualities. ranges do not like steel "cased" because it can destroy the chain systems, ranges do not like steel "cores" because it can punch through steel. your monarch has no steel "core"
 
As far as hardness: I fired rounds through a barrel and they came out without a scratch on them. The bullets are either harder or as hard as the steel barrel. What other conclusion can you draw?
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Not a conclusion that involves a thin steel jacket over a lead core somehow being of equal or greater hardness to a heat treated steel barrel. Use your common sense here. Bullets harder than barrels would destroy barrels. The thin steel jacket is not going to have the hardness to accomplish this. If it did these forums would be full of report after report of shot out or destroyed barrels as steel jacket lead core is hardly unique to Monarch.

How exactly did you recover these "slugs" without them being deformed?
 
gusss said:
As far as hardness: I fired rounds through a barrel and they came out without a scratch on them. The bullets are either harder or as hard as the steel barrel. What other conclusion can you draw?
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My initial conclusion is that your report of the bullet's condition is incorrect.
 
Retrieving these slugs was easy. They were shot into a pot full of potting soil and retrieved with a MAGNET.

The slugs that didn't hit each other or a rock are not deformed.

I'm giving up on this subject. One guy called the bullets an alloy. Fine, an alloy but a high steel alloy, and like steel they are hard to peel off of a super magnet.
 
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