Herter's Super Model 3 Press

C

condor bravo

New member
Whenever there is a query recommendation for a single stage press, I would like to be able to suggest the heavy and massive Herter's Super Model 3 press for rifle loading but of course these are no longer available new. But if interested, you could luck out and find a good one for sale on the net. The thing to remember is that there are two sub-models that I will just call the early model (sold for $13), and the later model that sold for $17. You definitely want the later model (not identified by dash numbers), that has what can be described as a platform extending outward from the top of the ram (not a part of the ram) when in the lowered ram position. This platform has no real useful purpose but this later model has a feature that allows the handle to remain in the upright position when placed there. The early model does not have that feature. Checking the net for sales, prices range from $40 to about $80, but it is hard to tell quality. The used presses will probably come with one or more Herter's shell holders, but to get what you need it will probably be necessary to get a Herter's shell holder adaptor for using RCBS type holders, available from Midway at last check. Note that this press has a 1.2" ram. This is heavy duty equipment that I find necessary for the large Remington Ultra Mag calibers but is a bit too much press and unnecessary for handgun calibers.
 
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This is heavy duty equipment that I find necessary for the large Remington Ultra Mag calibers but is too much press for handgun calibers.
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condor bravo, There is no shortage of triple web Super model 3 presses around here. I never thought of any press being 'too much press' for handgun calibers. Then there is that thing with keeping the handle up. It would seem the handle had a mind of its own. Some reloaders added a detent ball and spring. Herter installed the dent ball and spring on later models.

When it came to press deflection/flex The 'U' and 2 ram press had the advantage. The weak part of the press was the top of the ram, reloaders secured the shell holder to the ram with two set screws, it was not necessary to torque the screws. The screws were used to keep the shell holder from coming off when the ram was lowered: MEANING reloaders torqued the screws to two squeaks. When the screws were over torqued the top of the ram would spread.

Never pick up a Herter press with the ram down, as I said it has a mind of its own.

F. Guffey
 
Yes, excellent advise to always lower the handle which raises the ram before picking up the press by its neck. You'll get sort of the Model 3's equivalent of the Garand's "M-1 thumb" (but not quite as bad).
 
Yes, excellent advise to always lower the handle which raises the ram before picking up the press by its neck.
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You are correct, I suggest tying the handle up, it is like grappling and finding a snapping turtle, getting it off the hand is never fast enough.

F. Guffey
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-HER...ading-press-/231736632679?hash=item35f4946567

The detent for the ram can be seen on the side of this press. The advantage to the flat work surface was realized when RCBS made the primer pocket swage. The cup for removing the case from the swage did not work on presses that did not have a flat work surface.

Problem for reloaders that did have a press with a flat work surface: Reloaders assumed the case head of all cases measured the same. Meaning the rod/anvil bent before the rleoader could swage a few cases.

The detent ball and spring could be installed on any Herter press. Shell holders, Herter shell holders are unique, not my favorite. My favorite shell holders are loose shell holders. A shell holder that fits limits utility.

F. Guffey

Question: The price of Herter shell holders listed in your link would indicate a shell holder is being sold for money than the press?
 
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Well I have to make a correction; upon checking the web page again, the press referred to is now number 3 on the list, shown at $39.99. I guess its position jumps around and could be back again to number 2 next time.
 
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The press shown as new listing with bid at $9.99 would not be the one to buy since it has the adaptor missing for using standard 7/8 x 14 standard dies and, as is, will only utilize the Herter's shotshell loading tool as available at that time. That is, of course, unless the seller were to confirm that the adaptor was available. All the other presses appear to show the adaptor.
 
adaptor missing for using standard 7/8 x 14 standard dies
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Depends, the adapter is 'almost universal'. The difference in the height meaning I can move an adapter from a RCBS press and install it into a Herter press.

Then someone should ask "Why are the bushings different lengths?" For ME? I want as much thread engagement as I can get between the die and press. But:eek: as sure as I say that a reloader will suggest leaving the die loose, seems leaving the die loose allows the case to self align. I use the lock nut to remove slack between the die and threads in the press.

If purchased from RCBS the bushing are expensive, C&H is a more economical option.

F. Guffey
 
The model 3 press mentioned in post #8 (viewed through link in post #5) now has a bid of $18.50. I have asked the seller if the 7/8x14 standard die adaptor is available. But also, it looks like the set screws for the shell holders are missing. Not looking now like a good buy but it is the "later" model press. It also does not show a shell holder. The current bid model for $39.99 would appear to be the best buy.
 
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Follow up to post #10:
The seller replied that he has the 7/8x14 adapter coming so I next asked about the shell holder set screws and any shell holders. Awaiting his reply.
 
Follow up to post #11:
The seller reports that there are no shell holders and that the set screws are missing. The set screws would probably be difficult to find but adapters are available for using RCBS type shell holders.

NOTE: For the bottom line summation of this thread, see post #20.
 
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The seller replied that he has the 7/8x14 adapter coming
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RCBS list the press bushings on page 11 of the Special Order Catalog, bottom left column for $55.00 +/- a few. C&H4D is a better option. The set screws are available from any hardware store. I have the two ram Herter press with matching shell holders.

The adapter is secured to the ram with the set screws. When it comes to price C&H4D should be considered as an option.

F. Guffey
 
Yes, the set screws are necessary for securing the shell holder adapter. But would a hardware store have screws that would set below flush in the ram when the ram is lowered? I would want to check that out first.
 
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you are correct, Granger is an option, problem, they sell screws in boxes of 50. I would find set screws that were too long and then grind the length to fit with a taper against the shell holder/adapter.

Reason, if a case gets stuck in the die the case shell holder can be removed from the case and ram by removing/loosening the set screws. removing the shell holder will allow the die to be removed with the stuck case.

If the screw threads get messed up removing the set screws can be difficult.

f. Guffey
 
Condo Bravo, Then there is the 'Adapter', is does reduce the working distance between the top of the shell holder and bottom of the die, adding the adapter does change the function but no one has noticed. I have read where reloaders complained about using the Herter presses with adapt-ters they never determined the cause of the problem.

F. Guffey
 
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If I'm following you correctly, I suppose that would only be a consideration if the user didn't notice that the die was not screwed down properly to contact the shell holder if needed. There has been a bid increase on the one press under discussion and the seller has acknowledged that the set screws are missing. He claims to have the 7/8x14 adapter coming. That particular press no longer a best buy.

But I guess I see your other point, that the shell holder adapter does decrease the working space for long rifle cartridges but that can always be dealt with. I think my longest rounds are the 8mm Rem mags along with the Rem Ultra mags and they will all cooperate; although I have the Herters shell holder for those which helps.
 
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I have the Herters shell holder for those which helps.
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Condor Bravo, it helps, I agree. Then there is the difference. My favorite shell holder is a shell holder that fits only where it touches, meaning I choose to use RCBS shell holders because they do not fit. Lee shell holders fit with more room between the case head and shell holder.

Herter shell holders fit the case head but, for me? That is a problem. There is no room for a feeler gage when increasing the presses' ability to overcome the case's ability to resist sizing or when I am forming/sizing cases for short chambers.

The Herter shell holder fits the case head by design. The Herter press leans back at the top, not a problem when using Herter shell holders. But when using RCBS shell holders it is necessary to guide the case into the die when the ram is raised.

Then there is that part about Herter shell holders fitting. When loading with the Herter shell holder a reloader should know when the case does not fit the shell holder the case head has been upset. When a case does not fit my Herter shell holders I always suspect the case has been hammered with a heavy load. There are exceptions, there are cases that do not fit good fitting shell holders.

Cases only have one change to fit my shell holders, I do not use cases that fit an either or shell holder. For demonstrations purposes I have gasket cutting ball peen hammers, I use the small hammer to encourage the case ti fit the shell holder.

F. Guffey
 
The Herter Super 3 type press is a cam over press, it also qualifies as a bump press because it is a cam over press, because of the cam over the press bumps twice, once on the way up and again on the return trip down.

That is something my Rock Chuckers will not do. My Rock Chuckers will not bump because they do not cam over.

F. Guffey
 
For anyone inclined towards the consideration of a model 3 press, be guided by the following:
1. Be sure the press is the "later" model which allows the handle to be raised and hold itself to the upright position. From a good photo, this press has a platform as part of the frame that is level with the ram when the ram is at its lowered position.
2. The press requires the 7/8x14 loading die adapter that is viewed as a raised ring on the top of the press. In all likelihood, that adapter will be in place.
3. The press requires the set screws for the common set screw type of Herter's shell holder or the RCBS type shell holder adapter. If a press is shown with a shell holder on the ram, it is likely that the set screws are in place.
4. Preferably obtain Herter's shell holders for the calibers you will be using. Probably one or more shell holders will come with a press but may not be identified by caliber. Google Herter's model 3 shell holders to identify holders by number. Get the set screw type rather than the threaded screw down type if you have to buy any. Those are what the press will no doubt use.
5. If Herter's shell holders not available for what you need, get a RCBS type adapter usually available from Midway and other sources.
6. A good press in the $50 to $60 price range should be considered a good buy or better.
 
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