Here they are: Beretta 92FS and Glock 17 torture tests

First off, I have trouble with any article that contains the phrase “stopping power” with regard to handguns. I also am loathe to be forced to comment on the horrendous grammar witnessed throughout the article.

The author claims the 9mm is essentially inferior to the 45 ACP, then goes on to say he prefers the lighter, faster bullet. So much for declining the obvious.

He goes on to claim “better shot placement” ability is the reason. The theory he subscribes to relies on the “lowest common denominator” as you can derive from his military training “results”. Quicker proficiency does not equate to better terminal performance. Or more simply put, saving money does not always equate to saving lives.

How a 9mm is inherently more accurate than a 45 ACP is identified by the author as resulting from recoil. I have owned a 92 Beretta, a P226 (both in 9mm) and own 1911’s. The 9mm’s both have more “recoil” than the 1911’s if you define recoil as a causal factor with regard to bullet placement (this is the essence of his claim). Muzzle rise or “flip” is generally greater on the 9mm’s I have described. How he can make this preposterous claim and not expect broad-based criticism is indicative of his lack of experience with the articles in question. I have also fired some of the Army’s 1911’s during the 1980’s and many of them were quite worn and sloppy. Accuracy was mediocre with most. Comparing 1911’s of which “The last shipment of M1911A1 pistols to the Department of Defense was back in 1945” to those 9mm’s delivered since 1985 is pretty poor form. He admits this, but insinuates that even if new 1911’s were procured, they would somehow still be inferior.

As far as the M9 being “popular”, few of the Desert Storm vets I know are so enamored with the Beretta. Sand seemed to be the largest complaint. Most of the military folks I know prefer the M11 (P228) and in most units you will find a continual struggle over who gets to carry the units fewer M11’s.

Which “gun experts” is the author referring to when he says they find cocked and locked carry unsafe? The “unsafe practice” of lowering the hammer on a 1911 is likely done several thousand times a day in the United States alone, not to mention many other single action autos or even hybrids like the CZ-75 series. Sure, some negligent or accidental discharges occur, but they do not mandate the practice “unsafe”.

“Covering fire” with a pistol. True idiocy. If it truly comes down to that, somebody has made a severe tactical error. We are talking combat troops. Ft. Benning sounds like infantry to me. Surely in his brief tenure at Ft. Benning, the author would have learned a bit more about small arms and their employment.

“However, by cocking the hammer the trigger is well within reach for those with the smallest hands”. The time factor in pistol engagements is generally the largest consideration. Yet the author prefers those same troops who require a lesser cartridge in order to gain quicker proficiency to cock the pistol under life and death criteria. The other alternative is to double action the pistol which only requires a “16.5 lb” trigger pull. I’d love to see these same “lowest common denominator” troops double action groups compared to those of a similar condition “cocked and locked” 1911.

The comparison of finishes of pistols 40 years apart in delivery is absurd.

That “red paint” on the extractor of my Beretta 92 was all but gone within several hundred rounds.

The author sounds like another gun-show/gun-shop commando with good intent and poor subjectivity.

Who goes out and spends $5,000 to do something like this without being directly affiliated with Beretta? Or makes a living from it? At a minimum, with an axe to grind? I cannot help but question if in fact the “test” ever occurred at all.

Anyone have any information on the “author” or the date of the “test”?

That said, if I couldn’t carry Sig-Sauers, I’d carry Berettas. They are some of the finest firearms available.
 
Berettas are nice guns, granted. But I'm not buying one. I don't believe the accuracy in that test. The AMU had to significantly rework theirs to make them worth a damn. But my primary objection to them is the fact that they are HUGE! I can't get good trigger index on them, and I find them way too fat for a pistol of that caliber. Something on the order of 1 1/2 inches. I have revolvers thinner than that! And a 1911 .45 is less than 1 inch thick on the entire top half of the gun, with a caliber almost 1/8 inch larger in diameter. Nope. Not for me. I'm to short, er, average-size, to want a gun so bulky. I'll stick to my 1911, thanks.

Note: This is strictly opinion, albeit a fast and loose one. ;)
 
What sounds like true gun shop commandos are people who compare highly customized 1911s with stock M9s or 1911s. Or people that believe pistols have a lot of utility within the military. Or those who think that all we do is spend time on the range and have billions of rounds to develop the marksmanship skill of those who will not carry a pistol for years, if ever. Or those that think that either a 1911 or a M9 (you can substitute 9mm/40/45 in this category) is an ultimate combat weapon.
 
If I were ever forced down someplace unpleasant, I'd prefer the accuracy and capacity of a stock 92 or 228 to govt' issue 1911. For aircrew and pilots the pistol is not the primary weapon, it's the only weapon. For many guard duties it is also the primary weapon as rifles are often left unchambered, but the sidearm is ready to go in the holster. That's first hand, btw.
 
All 92fs-M9 problems were addressed-fixed by Beretta years ago. They are without a doubt one of, if not the finest pistol in the world.

Seems like guns never get over bad raps despite the problems being fixed. Case in point, early ruger P series P85s had an accuracy problem that was promptly adressed by ruger. Despite the fact that Rugers are top notch in every way, and have been for 15years they still have not totally shaken the accuracy problems the earliest of these had.
 
What? No update to Chuck Taylors G17 since it passed the 175,000 round mark and is on it's way to 200,000 before the next article.
 
To Will Beararms

I have had pistols like Clinton has had girlfriends. I still like the Beretta and I think the barrels are among the finest if not the finest in the world.


I own an American made Berretta. It has one of the roughest barrels on any 9mm handgun I have ever owned. Looking up the barrel it looks as though the rifling was cut with a hammer and a chisel. What saves this barrel is the fact that it is internally chrome plated otherwise I probably would not be able to shoot lead cast bullets out of it because it would probably just pick up to much leading.

A real quality barrel should be as smooth as a mirror inside. They pick up less jacketed and lead fouling. Look up the barrel of many 9mm handguns like Glocks, Walthers, Brownings and even Stars. They all have very smooth chatter free rifling. Not so on my Berretta. Maybe I just got a bad one?

My Beretta does not shoot to badly but I am lucky that they Chromed it internally thats for sure.
 
lee:

That hard chrome is the salvation of the barrel and it will not have the smooth appearance from other brands. It is impervious to corrosion and it takes half the time to clean as a normal barrel. My Beretta shotgun is a breeze to clean and tough as nails.
 
But my primary objection to them is the fact that they are HUGE! I can't get good trigger index on them, and I find them way too fat for a pistol of that caliber.

Funny, I'm probably the only person here who wants to put Hogue wraparounds on his Eltie II to bulk up the grip a little. It's a tad too small for me.
 
I also find the Berretta 92 grip size just fine, ESPECIALLY with the Hogue half-wrap rubber grips (not the sock, but the one attached by screws, two sides connected on front). But true, I have L size hands and like voluminous stock - my favourite is large frame Glock (21) which I prefer over mine G 17...
 
I have a hard time believing the 92 (or any other 9mm) is "inherently" easier to shoot than any 1911. My first handgun was a loaded Springfield 1911, and I had no problem shooting the gun well. This was mainly do to the excellent single-action triggers on 1911's, which keeps the shooter from jerking as much. And I don't buy that "heavy" recoil causes people to shoot 45s any worse than 9mm's. Most of the fear from shooting isn't so much from the recoil, but from the sudden movement of the gun and the loud report that follows. Most people who are sensitive to the 45 are also sensitive to the 9mm, and have a difficult time shooting either.

However, don't think for a minute that I am knocking the Beretta 92. I belive the M9 is MUCH more accurate than the old military 45's, and consequently, is easier for troops to shoot more accurately. I no longer carry 1911s, but instead carry a Beretta 92 compact. It took a lot of practice for me to shoot the 92C as well as my Kimber and Springfield, but the trigger isn't nearly as good, nor are the sights. But with practice, I have gotten very good with the gun, and I trust it with my life. The 92 is a great gun, and all its "evil bugs" have been worked out by the factory. I have put almost 1500 rds through my Compact since October, and it has yet to give me any problems.

I would take the Beretta 92 over a Glock any day of the week.
 
Personally I like the 92FS and 96FS much better than any of the 1911s I've owned. I for one cannot shoot a 1911 for sh!t. As far as the locking block goes... how manypeople have broken MIM parts on their Kimbers or had a slide crack on their SS Springfields. I'll not even go into the total POS my brother's Para turned out to be.

Fact is weapons are prone to failure at some point in their lifetime. How have you trained to overcome this? What back up weapons do you have? I never leave home without at least 2 weapons.

I have a few buddies who are died in the wool 1911 fans that can't understand that I'd rather carry a 92/96 or my Sig P239. Oh well, I guess that's why they make Chevy, Ford and Dodge.
 
Back
Top