Help with choosing a precision training/target rifle.

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sven1019

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I am considering buying a precision rifle for training, thinking in .223, solely for training and target shooting over 100 yards. I will mostly shoot from a bench or prone off a bipod and intend to use the rifle to become a better shot and to grow with. I am trying to decide between getting a production rifle and getting a rifle built by a gunsmith. I do not have a fortune to spend but realize that, for precision, I get what I pay for. Can anyone recommend a production rifle or a good manufacturer? The reason I am think .223 is that it's relatively cheap to shoot and easy to find ammo for. Also, because I'm relatively new to shooting and don't want to be hypersensitive to the recoil or muzzle blast and acquire bad habits if I start with a cartridge that really kicks hard. Would another caliber/cartridge be better?

When it comes to custom-built rifles, does anyone know of a good gunsmith in the eastern Pennsylvania area? If I get a production rifle, I may change the stock, get a thicker barrel or accurize the rifle for better precision, but can also think of having a custom rifle built for me. What do you think? All information and opinions are welcome. Thanks
 
How far over 100yds? A .22LR will do most of what you are looking to do more economically until about 200yds.
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Truth. At longer ranges, you can even learn to read the wind.

I ran the numbers a while back, at sea level, a 22LR Federal 40gr Match bullet at 1080 FPS in a 10 MPH full value wind has about 3.9 MOA of wind at 100 yards, which is roughly the same as my 6.5-06 Long Range rig at 625 yards (140AMAX @ 2818 FPS). At 200 yards it has about 9 min, which matches my 6.5 at about 1200 yards.
 
I'm not sure you have a clue what is being said here. You need a good production rifle to start out with and learn to shoot in the first place! Buying a high precision rifle you don't know how to use will gain you nothing! I've never read much bad about the Savage rifle's or the Ruger rifles. I've no recent experience with either. I do have a Mossberg Patriot Igot a couple years ago that shoot's under an inch out of the box. Run's right at 1/2" @ 100yds with handloads. Probably most any rifle you get you'll be able to get 1" or better from out of the box. From there it depend's on you and the ammo. I'd say it's gonna depend more on you as you don't seem to really know how to shoot from the start. Slow down and learn first.
 
My suggestion is a bit different.
Find a club that shoots the National Match Course or get the proper targets and follow the course on you own. Accepting the challenge to shoot accurately from position and having even a little success makes bench shooting almost boring. Marksmanship comes from learning basic skills regardless of firearm used.
As for precision rifles the AR platform is popular for NMC shooting and can easily transition to other shooting forms.
Eastern Pa.? Check Keystone Accuracy.com
 
Going to second the 22lr. Buy a Ruger Precision for about $450 and call it done. It is a great shooting bolt action rifle. You will learn much faster, better and cheaper than going with a 223.
 
We have UPS and Fed-Ex when it comes to shipping a rifle for it to be customized.
Budget?
What future types/shooting disciplines are you interested in?
 
Check out a Savage B22. Crazy little rifle, economical to buy and to shoot, which means lots of good practice without breaking the bank. I have a bull barrel model with just a cheap little Bushnell scope that shoots MOA out to 75 yds and just over MOA at 100 yds.
 
One thing I learned instructing new competitors to rifle marksmanship was they master the fundamentals faster with less ammo when their rifle is very accurate. More precise feedback to the new shooter as he learns to call his shots.

They're amazed to see how easy it is to get a good zero at 200 yards with 3 shots from standing. And never putting a shot dead center on the bullseye.
 
Bench-rest shooting has some merit in terms of adjusting and evaluating your rifle and ammo. But it seems to me that it is actually detrimental to developing your marksmanship skills, if that's where you do most of your shooting.

Getting even a little qualified training to coach you through the fundamentals of marksmanship, shooting from position, i.e., prone, sitting, kneeling, and especially, standing-off-hand, would go a long way to making you a better shot.

I agree with those that say a 22 Long Rifle is the best caliber for this. You can and will graduate to something more capable for longer range or perhaps hunting. The 22 LR provides high-volume practice at low cost.

I suggest a quality bolt-action rifle is probably the best option for becoming a good marksman.
 
4EVERM-14 said:
Find a club that shoots the National Match Course or get the proper targets and follow the course on you own.
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I posted printable versions of the 100 yard reduced version of the NMC targets here:

Prone Slow:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4236230&postcount=16

Standing/sitting rapid and prone rapid:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5135589#post5135589

I made them up with a gray pattern on them that was not visible from distance, the just looked like standard black bullseye type targets when using the iron sights, but with even minimal magnification you could see the bullet holes because they broke the pattern.

Bart B. said:
One thing I learned instructing new competitors to rifle marksmanship was they master the fundamentals faster with less ammo when their rifle is very accurate.
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True, but the reality is that most new production rifles are sufficiently accurate these days. The number of folks (whose opinions I respect) reporting 1/2 to 3/4" groups with the Ruger American Predator points it as an easy button for a centerfire rifle, but I still believe to learn fundamentals, it is hard to beat a quality .22LR at short range.

Preferably with qualified instruction.

Bart B. said:
More precise feedback to the new shooter as he learns to call his shots.
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To clarify what Bart is talking about here, This ain't Babe Ruth pointing to the center field fence.

It is simple awareness of where the sights were aligned when the shot broke, and is why having an acceptably accurate rifle is important. Calling your shot will force you to follow through and will help keep your eyes open when the shot breaks. You need to pay attention, and be honest with yourself.

Assuming the sights are properly aligned and zeroed, with practice, you should be able to tell where the shot went before even looking at the hole in the target.

Something else that can greatly improve you shooting ability, if done right, is dry-fire practice. When I started shooting service rifle, my standing scores were horrible, in the ~75% range. I made a target spot that matched the sight picture of the SR1 target at the distance I hung it in my house, and spent a lot of time practicing, and after only a few months my standing scores were in the ~90% neighborhood, mostly without firing a shot.
 
"...solely for training..." Training for what?
"...having a custom rifle built for me..." Costs a fortune. What's your budget for a rifle? Keeping in mind that most new rifles do not come with sights. A real factory "precision" rifle starts at about 2 grand.
MSRP on a Savage Model 110 Apex Storm XP, that comes in .223 with a 3-9x40mm Vortex Crossfire II scope(the days of combo's having crappy scopes are long gone) is $749.00. It's a good entry level rifle.
Look into the Appleseed shoots too. https://appleseedinfo.org/
"...22 Long Rifle is the best caliber for this..." .22's get boring in a hurry though. Even a really good one.
"...Bench-rest shooting has some merit..." Testing loads, etc. isn't bench rest shooting. It's shooting off a bench. Ain't the same thing.
 
T. O'Heir said:
Look into the Appleseed shoots too. https://appleseedinfo.org/
"...22 Long Rifle is the best caliber for this..." .22's get boring in a hurry though. Even a really good one.
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A rimfire 22 is the best rifle to learn proper "follow through." That's not releasing the trigger until the rifle stops moving from recoil. Don't be a "finger flicker."

One has to hold a 22 rimfire rifle still about 3 times longer after the trigger sear releases the firing pin than a centerfire rifle.

Good luck finding 22 rimfire ammo that'll shoot no worse than 3/4ths MOA through 100 yards. All the 100, and some 50, yard prone scoped 40-shot records set around 1979 still stand.
 
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Yes, there is a certain official, "sport", commonly known as benchrest shooting; which I was not referring to. That's more of a rifle-science, R-and-D laboratory, compared to what I was mentioning. All shooting off the bench with your rifle rested over it is benchrest shooting, whether it's formal or informal.

What I was referring to, is the temptation to spend so much time and ammo shooting from the bench that one can neglect shooting from actual field positions. When that kind of thing becomes a habit, the bench becomes detrimental to marksmanship. So the shooter becomes addicted to the bench because frankly, they can hardly hit anything without it. Who doesn't know someone like that?

Learn to shun the bench. Stand up on your hind legs and shoot like a man.

To the folks who actually engage in formal benchrest shooting; you have my respect and thanks for advancing the accuracy of the modern rifle. Y'all are scientists in my book.
 
For rifles whose stocks are not shaped for free recoiling benchrest use in competition, a mechanical device called "accuracy cradle" or "machine rest" was designed in the 1960's to hold conventional stock shapes.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/12787226@N00/albums/72157594303093714/

Military teams used them testing 30 caliber semiautomatic service rifles. Who'd have thought a rebuilt Garand would shoot Sierra 190 HPMK's inside 4" at 600 yards. With new LC M118 cases.
 
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Pathfinder45 said:
Yes, there is a certain official, "sport", commonly known as benchrest shooting; which I was not referring to. That's more of a rifle-science, R-and-D laboratory, compared to what I was mentioning. All shooting off the bench with your rifle rested over it is benchrest shooting, whether it's formal or informal.

What I was referring to, is the temptation to spend so much time and ammo shooting from the bench that one can neglect shooting from actual field positions. When that kind of thing becomes a habit, the bench becomes detrimental to marksmanship. So the shooter becomes addicted to the bench because frankly, they can hardly hit anything without it. Who doesn't know someone like that?

Learn to shun the bench. Stand up on your hind legs and shoot like a man.

To the folks who actually engage in formal benchrest shooting; you have my respect and thanks for advancing the accuracy of the modern rifle. Y'all are scientists in my book.
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I do some 1000 yard bench shooting (Usually with a specialty pistol), and I do some 1000 yard F-Open and F-TR and I use really good rests and bi-pods to compete (http://www.sebrests.com/) , but I enjoy shooting with field positions the most, using field rests. I rarely stand to kill things, and I always try to get a steady as field rest as possible, even if it means shooting further. I do the majority of my hunting and prairie dogging from the prone, sitting or double kneeling position.
 
Perhaps oddly, I have not found 22LR to be boring at all. I do find other calibers useful and interesting, but I never get tired of 22's... So much fun at so little cost.
 
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