Help with an Argument on "knock down" power

. I think that (shooting plates and pins and the like) is where the “knockdown power” stuff got its foothold
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Probably more like Hollywood with people flying across the room, and out of windows when shot. like most other gun fantasy they have created.
 
44 AMP said:
f it isn't the bullet, then, what is it??

Seriously, if it isn't the size, weight, speed, momentum, or any other factor of the bullet (no matter which formulae are used), then what is it that "knocks" them down??

Perhaps the myth is the idea that it is the bullet that knocks down a live target.
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Physiological and psychological things do that. The difference between being knocked down and falling down.
 
Another interesting thing. I was looking for the 9mm report the FBI did in 2014 and called my local PD. They said they could not release it to civilians. However, they would answer any question I posed to them.
 
People claim all sorts of amazing things for the 45 ACP. Once you see it bounce off a propane tank you realize they are wrong.
 
I saw one bounce off a big truck tire and hit a guy in the chest - for a big bruise. The tire was unimpressed.

Are we convinced that handgun rounds don't physically move you as to knock you over. If folks fall over, it is a combination of factors but not that?
 
that's really kind of funny. bouncing off of a tire. A guy I know reports this story, he was firing a cap and ball, put his target against a tree, and bounced the ball back into his knee cap.
 
Wish that term "Knockdown power" was not in such wide use. Guess I've just heard too many Gun shop Commandos throwing the term around when describing their favorite cartridge. I realize that Mr. Potterfield is a very successful business man. I order from Midway and have enjoyed some of Mr. Potterfield's videos. I understand what Mr. Potterfield is trying to convey, but think his use of the term is imprecise.
Perhaps, something like "stop the the threat with one well placed shot" might be more consistent with reality....
In any case, I know of someone who was shot through the torso at very close range with a .44 Magnum 240 grain JSP from a 7 1/2" .44 Magnum. He was not "Knocked down". This incident did not involve the vaunted .45 ACP, but I suspect that any advantage in being able to knock a person down, were it possible to do so, would go to the .44 Mag........ymmv
 
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I think that it's rather amusing to watch the westerns, and when a guy is shot he sort of stiffens and crumples. Every time, the same thing. there has to be some sort of meaning to that...
 
In any case, I know of someone who was shot through the torso at very close range with a .44 Magnum 240 grain JSP from a 7 1/2" .44 Magnum. He was not "Knocked down".
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I can't remember the source now (maybe one of Ayoob's articles in American Handgunner) but I remember reading an article about a police shooting that drove the point home.

Both cops were armed with similarly hot handloaded .44 Special (along the line of one of Elmer Keith's loadings) in large frame revolvers. Performance from both guns was reported to be on a par with lighter .44 mag loadings. The cops were gun-nuts and practiced and reloaded together. The result was that they were both excellent shooters.

They were called to a disturbance at a bar and arrived to find the focus of the call leaving the premises. As he exited the bar, he saw the cops and removed a gun from the paper bag he was carrying.

Both cops drew and emptied their guns, hitting him 11 times center of mass in less than 5 seconds (the two cops had a lifelong friendly disagreement on who missed a shot). The ex-disturbance fell FORWARD and expired promptly.

If 11 rounds of near .44mag won't knock a person down, I'm not sure what will.
 
If 11 rounds of near .44mag won't knock a person down, I'm not sure what will.
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While I've never tested it, I've always felt that a COM hit from a 90mm recoilless rifle would probably do it... :rolleyes:
 
The video of the .50 bmg that failed to knock a disposable cup over truly impressed me. Obviously, that rifle had no knock down power.

I tend to forget that there can be even more complicating factors such as the amount of resistance that the target provides. The videos of people shooting gummy bears are interesting.
 
It's simple really, knock down power implies that it has enough energy to physically knock somebody down. I've got news for your friend, nothing you can shoot (handgun, rifle or shotgun) will physically knock down an adult. Now, if you hit the CNS of a bad guy, they may go down very quick, but that's due to their body shutting down, not the bullet itself physically knocking them down.
 
I don't know about "knockdown" power but in my experience a deer shot with the .270 falls down faster than one shot with the .243. I've shot quite a few with both calibers, they go down faster with the bigger bullet. Note the .243 goes a couple hundred fps faster than the .270.

With a handgun, I don't know. I do know that on steel plates the .45 will knock the plate down way more forcefully than a .38 or 9 mm but that's not the same as in soft tissue. More damage from a larger bullet would cause more bleeding tho.
 
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