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Jim Watson
New member
Well, sure enough, the ai4r site goes into that.
The Germans actually bought more 9mm K/.380 Astras than they did 7.65/.32 ACP.
Not a rare gun but still a legitimate enemy weapon.
The Germans actually bought more 9mm K/.380 Astras than they did 7.65/.32 ACP.
Not a rare gun but still a legitimate enemy weapon.
Jim Watson
New member
It's OK.
Oil them up and rub them down with a coarse cloth or cheap rough brown paper towel. That will remove a lot of grime and surface rust.
You can get a clip for your M-B at
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=67
Yours looks like the early model with only a three shot clip.
Oil them up and rub them down with a coarse cloth or cheap rough brown paper towel. That will remove a lot of grime and surface rust.
You can get a clip for your M-B at
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=67
Yours looks like the early model with only a three shot clip.
Last edited:
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Ok just went back a read all the info you posted so far I know I'm missing the clip for the rifle"
That's a French Berthier carbine using the Mannlicher-style en-bloc clip.
The ammunition came loaded in the clips and was inserted into the magazine. After the last round was fed into the chamber, the now empty clip fell free.
Somewhere on the barrel or receiver it should be stamped with the particular model.
As it appears to be a 3-round version (as opposed to the later 5-round version with a partially exposed magazine), it's most likely an Mle 1892, possibly a 1902 or a 1907.
On the left is the clip for your gun:
Most rifles and carbines were altered during the war to 5-round magazines because of troop complaints that 3 rounds were too few.
That's a French Berthier carbine using the Mannlicher-style en-bloc clip.
The ammunition came loaded in the clips and was inserted into the magazine. After the last round was fed into the chamber, the now empty clip fell free.
Somewhere on the barrel or receiver it should be stamped with the particular model.
As it appears to be a 3-round version (as opposed to the later 5-round version with a partially exposed magazine), it's most likely an Mle 1892, possibly a 1902 or a 1907.
On the left is the clip for your gun:
Most rifles and carbines were altered during the war to 5-round magazines because of troop complaints that 3 rounds were too few.
Jim Watson
New member
For some silly reason, the Poilus objected to having only three shots when the Germans came "over the top." The five round magazine and its clip did not come along until the war was nearly over.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"The five round magazine and its clip did not come along until the war was nearly over."
Given the pressure that the French military complex was under, it's rather surprising that it came along at all.
That, however, was the rifle version.
The carbine version was manufactured and rolled out a lot more quickly and saw significant service during the war.
I've got a 5-shot carbine version, can't remember the specific model variation. Handy little cuss, but the bolt action just sucks on ice.
Given the pressure that the French military complex was under, it's rather surprising that it came along at all.
That, however, was the rifle version.
The carbine version was manufactured and rolled out a lot more quickly and saw significant service during the war.
I've got a 5-shot carbine version, can't remember the specific model variation. Handy little cuss, but the bolt action just sucks on ice.
Are these the right bullets for the Roth steyr http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php/cName/pistol-ammo-8mm-steyr
And these for the mannlicher
http://www.selwayarmory.com/prvi-pa...gr-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-box-of-20.html
And these for the mannlicher
http://www.selwayarmory.com/prvi-pa...gr-full-metal-jacket-boat-tail-box-of-20.html
Jim Watson
New member
Yes, and yes.
And 8mm Nambu here
http://www.ammo-one.com/8mmNambu.html
I am sure the experts will warn you about having such old guns checked out before shooting them. The problem is finding a gunsmith who knows what he is looking at.
And 8mm Nambu here
http://www.ammo-one.com/8mmNambu.html
I am sure the experts will warn you about having such old guns checked out before shooting them. The problem is finding a gunsmith who knows what he is looking at.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"And these for the mannlicher"
No, those are cartridges for your Berthier rifle.
You have a Berthier rifle, NOT a Mannlicher. A Mannlicher rifle is a completely different critter; there is a difference.
Your Berthier rifle employes a Mannlicher-style feed system.
If you were to go into a gunshop asking for ammunition for your Mannlicher rifle, you'd probably get 6.5mm ammunition for a Mannlicher Carcano rifle, which was an Italian military rifle.
No, those are cartridges for your Berthier rifle.
You have a Berthier rifle, NOT a Mannlicher. A Mannlicher rifle is a completely different critter; there is a difference.
Your Berthier rifle employes a Mannlicher-style feed system.
If you were to go into a gunshop asking for ammunition for your Mannlicher rifle, you'd probably get 6.5mm ammunition for a Mannlicher Carcano rifle, which was an Italian military rifle.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I am sure the experts will warn you about having such old guns checked out before shooting them."
My "old gun" checkout was always an old tire, some bungee straps, and a long string to operate the trigger.
Then again I lived in a pretty rural area when I was younger.
I'm sure if I tried that protocol these days the range masters at the NRA Range would get pretty uptight...
My "old gun" checkout was always an old tire, some bungee straps, and a long string to operate the trigger.
Then again I lived in a pretty rural area when I was younger.
I'm sure if I tried that protocol these days the range masters at the NRA Range would get pretty uptight...
Jim Watson
New member
That is what I called it based on Internet listings.
As Mike says, the only Mannlicher feature is the discarding clip.
I am glad Mike brought up the tire and string method of "checking out" a used gun. My boss was scared of his actual war trophy Arisaka, so I walked him through that process. It did fine. As P.O. Ackley said, no nation intentionally issued booby traps to its troops... even Italy.
As Mike says, the only Mannlicher feature is the discarding clip.
I am glad Mike brought up the tire and string method of "checking out" a used gun. My boss was scared of his actual war trophy Arisaka, so I walked him through that process. It did fine. As P.O. Ackley said, no nation intentionally issued booby traps to its troops... even Italy.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Ok I guess I'm a little confused I thought the rifle (the only 1 from pics) was a Mannlicher berthier"
Nope, it was never identified as such. It was always simply the Berthier.
Nope, it was never identified as such. It was always simply the Berthier.
Ahh ok make sense now thank you for the info and help you ha e been giving me and helping get and all the time you took to post all of you guys are awesome thanks I'm probably going to try and order a Clip for the berthier and some ammo for both this Friday I'll repost when I find the ammo for the berthier so you guys can confirm they are right before ordering
Mike Irwin
Staff
Prepare to be shocked by the price.
They're pretty uncommon, and as such can be rather pricey - $20 and above.
Then there's also the issue of in regular use the clip is actually damaged slightly when the rounds feed, so you might find that feeding isn't 100% reliable with a reused clip.
They're pretty uncommon, and as such can be rather pricey - $20 and above.
Then there's also the issue of in regular use the clip is actually damaged slightly when the rounds feed, so you might find that feeding isn't 100% reliable with a reused clip.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Also, if you read French (you can get by with Spanish or Italian, to a degree), there are downloadable PDFs of Berthier rifles here:
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/lebel-and-berthier-manuals/
They are apparently scans of original manuals.
http://www.forgottenweapons.com/lebel-and-berthier-manuals/
They are apparently scans of original manuals.