Help please, shots keep stringing to the left.

K

Kimio

New member
Ok, I've got some basic understandings of how to shoot.

Watch your breathing and shoot between the natural pauses after you exhale
gently squeeze the trigger and don't yank on it
focus on the front sight and make sure it covers the target
don't tense up and relax your muscles

Now, I went to the range today and was practicing from the prone unsupported position firing at 3" targets from 25 yards away and it seemed that no matter how much I shifted my aim or how much I tried to compensate with windage adjustments, my shots kept flying to the left. We had a 4-7 MPH east to west wind and I was shooting north so the wind may have interfered a little but I don't think it should impact my accuracy this much.

I tried correcting by applying a little more trigger pull than normal since this did happen before and I was being a little too gentle. No dice, even when shifting off the paper my shots still went left of the target.

Can someone please give me their input on what they think I may be doing wrong?

I marked the groups I shot.G4 and G5 were when I was aiming at the orange diamond, and G6 was when I was aiming off the paper. All other targets were shot with me aiming at the orange diamonds.

DSC05088.jpg
 
Are you sure you were keeping the sight picture on the bullseye instead of on the previous shot? Generally when you're stringing shots it's because you're subconsciously aiming at the hole of the previous shot instead of at the center of the target.
 
Yeah, I generally don't take my eyes away from the irons and try to keep my sights on target. The only time I look away is when I'm out of ammunition (Usually 3-5 rounds each group) to check my groupings through the spotting scope.

I really don't understand what's wrong. I try moving the windage over 3 to 4 tick lines on the rear aperture and still no dice. Shots still kept flying to the left.

EDIT: I forgot to mention I'm shooting Wolf 55gr FMJ Military Classic ammunition. Not the most accurate ammunition out there, but I don't think it's so bad that it would give me groupings like this at 25 yards.

My AR15 is a full length rifle with 20" barrel with a 1/9 twist so I'm pretty sure it should be fine. I'm almost certain it's something I'm doing wrong, I can hit steel plates easy enough at 200-300 yards easy enough standing and kneeling, but this crappy grouping is just a mystery to me. I never had this much problem before, at 50 yards I used to be able to get my shots within the diamonds pretty easily.
 
Kimio:

It looks like your rifle is grouping so it's not the rifle. Are you sure that your rifle's sights are moving when the adjustment knobs are turned?


Semper Fi.


Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
 
Yeah, I made sure of it, I sat there and carefully watched it scoot to the left after a couple clicks. The rifle is more accurate than me, so I'm sure it's something I'm doing wrong, but I don't know what it is sadly.
 
Kimio:

It looks like that your rifle is grouping so it's not the rifle. Are you sure that the rifle's sights are moving when the knobs are turned? Also, are you consciously pulling the trigger? You don't pull a trigger, you release the trigger and this must be done without moving the sights. The rifle's recoil should come as a surprise.

Semper Fi.

Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
 
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Hmm, I usually am thinking and trying to control my trigger pull. Next time I'll try not to think about it and focus on the irons and see where that takes me. Normally I keep the irons pretty steady on target while I'm releasing the trigger, perhaps I'm doing something at the very last second before the round fires. I also had a lot of large caliber rifles going off all around me, so it's possible I was flinching perhaps from all the other rifles going off. But if I was flinching, I would have thought that would of made my shots go low on the target or something.
 
No, I was aiming dead center of target. Perhaps I'll take some video next time I go, perhaps you guys/gals will see something that I'm not seeing while I'm aiming down range.

This is the first time I've tried firing from the prone position, so maybe my posture is wrong, but I tried three shots from the bench and was still stringing them to the left.
 
is the gun new to you have you ever got it to be on target? moving the rear aperature 3-4 clicks to the right isnt much you may have to go more to get it right.
 
Try from a well supported and comfortable prone position, bags or by-pod. Eliminate as much of the human contact factor as you can and see if it improves. If it does then you have a starting point to work back to to unsupported and hopefully identify the problem along the way.
 
I've put almost 600+ rounds through the rifle, though all of that was usually from a seated position at a bench rest. Truth be told I never really shot against paper targets a whole lot, and I just went for steel plates at the 200-300 yard range.

The times I did shoot at paper, I usually was able to keep my shots grouped and on target even at 100 yards (not the greatest of groups with irons, usually around 6"+)

This is completely out in left field for me considering I'm usually pretty accurate. I've never had to touch the aperture for elevation or windage before, and the case the rifles secured in has not been dropped or jarred before so I'm darn sure it's something I'm doing wrong.

@Chaz, my range has some sand bags I can use to try and help me figure this out. Thanks for the suggestion on that. I'll certainly try that out, hopefully I was just on an off day and I'll improve next time.
 
The problems you are experiencing are related to how you are mounting the rifle and your technique. When you are changing positons from a bench to prone it is showing up in your groups.

The vertical stringing is possibly related to your breathing. You are supposed to exhale and allow the breath to leave, not forcing it out. Once you have exhaled then you hold your breath. Only hold it for about 3-4 seconds as your vision will begin to blur if you hold it longer than that. Trying to hold it for a long duration will make accuracy go out of the window. If you cannot acchieve your sight picture in the time limit just start the cycle over.

Another potential problem that may also cause the rounds to have a vertical stringing effect can occur from not having your cheek weld in the exact same place every time. Many times people will zero a rifle while on a bench and then when they shoot prone they allow their head to be further forward on the stock. This will change the POI in relation to your POA an exibit itself as a vertical string.

The left to right stringing can occur from canting your head on the stock. To mount the rifle properly you should never tilt your head. All you are doing is causing your eye to be at a lesser or greater distance to the left or right on the stock, this will cause your POI in relation to your POA to change once again.

When I say consistency I mean exactly that. You must mount the rifle the exact same way every time or you will not group in the same location you originally sighted in for. The way to accieve this with your AR is to place your nose on the charging handle and to make sure your head is vertical. You will need a friend or use a mirror to see if you are canting your head over the stock. Another easy way to do this is to bring the rifle stock up to your face and not your face to the stock. The same thing applies to a handgun and I often see people lowering their head to the sights as opposed to bringing the pistol sights up to their line of sight.

The trigger press should not be quick. It should be a steady and constant build up of pressure until the break. After the shot breaks you should be pulling the trigger all the way to the rear and then releasing it. This is follow through and plays a role in accuracy on the human side of this task. All of your motions should be smooth as possible. A good method to ensure you are not jerking the trigger is to dry fire the rifle while balancing a quarter on the barrel. When in the prone your goal is to press the trigger while keeping it on the barrel. If the quarter falls off the barrel you are not pulling the trigger properly. Once again you will need a friend to help you with this training technique. Shooting from prone can be uncomfortable untill you get used to it. Suffice it to say that if you are shooting in the prone your position is more dependent upon the mechanics of it as opposed to trying to use muscle to hold it.

Tension is a real problem when it comes to accuracy at a distance. The Tacticool guys like to use tension for their CQB stuff to "drive the gun". When the ranges are very short, say 25-50 yards it won't make a great deal of difference with a rifle. Same thing for 7 yards for a pistol. Take those techniques they are using and try it at 300 yards with a rifle or 25+ yards for a pistol and they will miss very often.

All the kiddes like to say "Pull that chicken wing in and square off to the target.", when they see a typical offhand standing shot from a person schooled as a rifleman. They don't know why they know that, but they know it an know it is right and chicken wing man is wrong. What they don't comprehend is that marksmanship and close range shooting are not the same thing. Each has a particular skill set and marksmanship comes before the more advanced combat skills. Without a good foundation you will subject to frustration. It is the fundamentals that must be mastered first.

Look up these titles on You Tube, they will help you understand a little better what I mean and how to build a skill set.

M1 Rifle Training pt1 , M1 Rifle Training pt2 , and M1 Rifle Training pt3. They are posted by a YT user by the name of Kilogulf59. These are old WW2 training videos and informative for those not familiar with the Rifleman concept.

The next titles to look for , although this may see odd to you, they are valid none the less. Shotgun Shooting Instruction: Cheek It Part 1 and Shotgun Shooting Instruction: Cheek It Part 2 by YT user VDGIF.

This should give you a better understanding of what proper mounting of long arms means to cosistant groups and accuracy we all like to accomplish.

Hope this helps and good shooting.
 
Wow, that was way more than I was expecting slugthower, thank you so much. I've tried the whole quarter thing on my own but with a dime and never had it fall so far, but the rest of that I had no idea.

I'll probably print that out and practice it before my next range trip.

Everyone else, I really appreciate all the help that's been given so far. Any further suggestions is always welcome.
 
Sight picture and windage adjustment

Kimio - try using prone supported like someone else stated. Also, when things seem to get complicated, go back to the basics. I was going to type a whole bunch of things but I figure a couple of pictures are worth a lot than words. Good luck and safe shooting.

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Hello, Kimio. I read thru all your posts...and your third one caught my attention: "I sat there and carefully watched it scoot to the left after a couple of clicks". Umm....are you sure your moving the sight in the right direction? If it's grouping too far left..the rear must be moved to the right.
Now for a front sight adjustment..you move the sight in the opposite direction you want impact to be.
 
I also tried going to the right as well, and the shots still impacted left unfortunately. Sorry, should have mentioned that as well.

This is all great information, and I appreciate it all. Thanks again everyone for helping me out here. It's really been bothering me that my accuracy was so off when compared to what I was capable of at the bench.

I'll be sure to post my results once I've made it out to the range again. Hopefully I'll be able to fix what I was doing wrong.
 
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