Hey guy, have a problem/ question. I am 30 have bought many guns, I have my ccdw permit out of Kentucky which is current and active. I am on vacation, while driving thru Georgia stopped at a bass pro saw a AR-15 for sell and was informed I could get it BC Georgia let's any state buy a firearm. Did my background check and I was surprised to be denied!!!! I have nothing on my record and have checked my background myself and nothing was there? Any ideas why I was denied and will it happen again???
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Help! NICS Denial...
- Thread starter Bhall1986
- Start date
Theohazard
New member
Welcome to TFL! As this question doesn't seem to involve any NFA firearms, it probably belongs in the General forum or the Law and Civil Rights forum.
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/appeals/nics-appeals-process/appeals-home
Just to clarify, this is federal law: Handguns and "others" must be transferred to you by a dealer in your state of residence, but long guns can be transferred to you by a dealer in any state so long as the firearm is legal in both your state and the state where the transfer is taking place.Bhall1986 said:I am on vacation, while driving thru Georgia stopped at a bass pro saw a AR-15 for sell and was informed I could get it BC Georgia let's any state buy a firearm.
There's no way for any of us to know why you got denied short of guessing, and there's definitely no way for any of us to know if it will happen again. Those are questions you should ask the FBI NICS appeals folks (and maybe also a lawyer). Here is a link to the FBI NICS appeals page:Bhall1986 said:Any ideas why I was denied and will it happen again?
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/appeals/nics-appeals-process/appeals-home
turtlehead
New member
Is it possible he wasn't denied and the store was uncomfortable with the transaction for whatever reason?
Hunter Customs
New member
I believe by ATF rules if your State is not a bordering State of where you are wanting to purchase the rifle then the FFL can not transfer the rifle to you.
They could however ship it to an FFL in your State to do the transfer there.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
They could however ship it to an FFL in your State to do the transfer there.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
Spats McGee
Administrator
Bob, with all due respect (and I sincerely mean that), I think the contiguous state rule was changed in ~1986. Here's the currently-applicable statute on out-of-state transfers:Hunter Customs said:I believe by ATF rules if your State is not a bordering State of where you are wanting to purchase the rifle then the FFL can not transfer the rifle to you.
They could however ship it to an FFL in your State to do the transfer there.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
Congress said:(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver--
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age; [Spats' Note = Buyer must be 21 or over for handguns]
(2) any firearm to any person in any State where the purchase or possession by such person of such firearm would be in violation of any State law or any published ordinance applicable at the place of sale, delivery or other disposition, unless the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe that the purchase or possession would not be in violation of such State law or such published ordinance; [Spats' Note = Firearm must be legal]
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes; [Spats' Note = Buyer has to be a resident of the same state as the FFL, unless the buyer meets at the FFL's place of business, in person, to do the transfer]
18 U.S.C.A. § 922 (West)
A word of caution to the OP: We ordinarily close these threads with a "get a lawyer" note. As you investigate this denial, please do not publicly disclose anything that you wish to keep private. What you say to an attorney during consultation is confidential and privileged at law. What you post on the internet is not.
Bob, with all due respect (and I sincerely mean that), I think the contiguous state rule was changed in ~1986. Here's the currently-applicable statute on out-of-state transfers:
Absolutely correct. I purchased a rifle in PA while there on vacation and I am a FL resident and took the rifle with me. No shipping
Hunter Customs
New member
Thank you Spats and Don P for the correction, unfortunately being a small dealer in a rural area we do not always receive updates to ATF rules and regulations.
I will bring this to the attention of the ATF agent doing my next inspection.
I realize it's my responsibility to know the laws and I apologize to Bhall1986 and anyone else reading this post for the incorrect information I posted.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
I will bring this to the attention of the ATF agent doing my next inspection.
I realize it's my responsibility to know the laws and I apologize to Bhall1986 and anyone else reading this post for the incorrect information I posted.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
Gary L. Griffiths
New member
I think we've gotten away from the OP's original question. He was denied because his background check came back denied, not because he was from a non-contiguous state, or because the store didn't want to sell him the rifle.
He needs to go through the appeal procedure, if it's that big an issue for him.
He needs to go through the appeal procedure, if it's that big an issue for him.
I did give my social, and the salesman and me hit it off great.. I am hoping it just was the state I was in. I have requested for the reasoning behind the denial. Waiting on a email can take up to five days... if I try again when I return to Kentucky is it illegal knowing I have failed once b4.. this situation has worried me to death guys I have checked many time to make sure my ccdw license is active and even paid to do my background check on myself to check for anything and there is nothing. is it possible the salesman pit in wrong information on the firearm like serial number?? Would that denied me?? So many factors I will must like look into getting a lawyer.
Last edited:
Twice, the system was down (different locations) when I purchased. Even when brought up, the signature pad was really working poorly.
So, I paid real close attention when we went over the print out together.
If you interpose numbers (typo) they can do the line out/initial correction. Your address has to be EXACTLY as drivers license. Your name - EXACTLY as drivers license.
If they went over print out with you and that had no problems, my guess is that the possibly weren't exact on the Make, model, serial number.
I have bad eyesight, sometimes 3s look like 8s, etc. They may accidently misread a number. Most times, the counterperson will write down what they saw, the get another counter person to do the same - then compare. One time the first guy had a number wrong.
Sorry to hear you have this problem. Hard to get things straightened out with the government. Look and see if they gave you any paperwork. If not, I don't see how to proceed. Could go do another check. - if they will let you - in Kentucky.
So, I paid real close attention when we went over the print out together.
If you interpose numbers (typo) they can do the line out/initial correction. Your address has to be EXACTLY as drivers license. Your name - EXACTLY as drivers license.
If they went over print out with you and that had no problems, my guess is that the possibly weren't exact on the Make, model, serial number.
I have bad eyesight, sometimes 3s look like 8s, etc. They may accidently misread a number. Most times, the counterperson will write down what they saw, the get another counter person to do the same - then compare. One time the first guy had a number wrong.
Sorry to hear you have this problem. Hard to get things straightened out with the government. Look and see if they gave you any paperwork. If not, I don't see how to proceed. Could go do another check. - if they will let you - in Kentucky.
Theohazard
New member
Bhall1986 said:is it possible the salesman pit in wrong information on the firearm like serial number??
None of that information is transmitted to the FBI during a NICS check. The only information they get on the gun is whether it's a handgun, long gun, or other.pappa said:my guess is that the possibly weren't exact on the Make, model, serial number.
Your address is also not included with the NICS check. Here is what information is transmitted if the buyer is a US citizen:pappa said:Your address has to be EXACTLY as drivers license. Your name - EXACTLY as drivers license.
-Name
-Place of birth
-Height
-Weight
-Gender
-Date of birth
-SSN (optional)
-Ethnicity
-Race
-State of residence
-Country of citizenship
-Type of transfer (sale, pre-pawn, etc.)
-Type of firearm (handgun, long gun, or other)
That's it. And I've had a NICS examiner tell me that all the other information can be messed up, but as long as the SSN is used then they can still give an accurate result to a background check. And it seems that this is true: At the last shop I worked at an employee messed up and entered the entirely wrong name when doing a background check, but because the SSN was correct the FBI was still able to perform an accurate background check.
Last edited:
This has always been both my biggest fear, and my biggest objection to the entire background check idea.
The idea that a background check is both harmless and desirable has become entrenched with most people, due to the simple idea that if you are not, and never have been in trouble with the law, then it is of no consequence.
But it is.
There is a formal appeals process, as there should be. No system can be perfect, so there must be a process to dispute false positives.
But when the "lords and masters" from whom the law says we must beg approval, when they are too busy to follow their own rules and hear valid appeals???
Where do we draw the line between "honest" bureaucratic inefficiency, including the inability to provide sufficient resources from the public purse to discharge their obligations, and deliberate tyranny?
because there IS such a line, though each may see it in a different place.
Follow the appeals process. And prepare to get a lawyer. Or better yet, find one who, if not the right one will find you the right one, and consider their advice, carefully.
I also second the thought that nothing further should be shared on public forums until you have the matter resolved.
Good luck, and please, when the matter is resolved, discuss your experiences with us.
The idea that a background check is both harmless and desirable has become entrenched with most people, due to the simple idea that if you are not, and never have been in trouble with the law, then it is of no consequence.
But it is.
There is a formal appeals process, as there should be. No system can be perfect, so there must be a process to dispute false positives.
But when the "lords and masters" from whom the law says we must beg approval, when they are too busy to follow their own rules and hear valid appeals???
Where do we draw the line between "honest" bureaucratic inefficiency, including the inability to provide sufficient resources from the public purse to discharge their obligations, and deliberate tyranny?
because there IS such a line, though each may see it in a different place.
Follow the appeals process. And prepare to get a lawyer. Or better yet, find one who, if not the right one will find you the right one, and consider their advice, carefully.
I also second the thought that nothing further should be shared on public forums until you have the matter resolved.
Good luck, and please, when the matter is resolved, discuss your experiences with us.
deerslayer303
New member
Since you have a concealed carry license shouldn't that have waived the whole NICS process? I have a permit as well amd when buying a gun I still have to fill out the 4473 but the transaction doesn't have to go through the system.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Since you have a concealed carry license shouldn't that have waived the whole NICS process?
It depends on the state. Some states do not use the Federal NICS system. Those states can waive background checks/waiting periods for a concealed permit holder, if the state law allows it.
My state had a 3day waiting period (for handguns) back in the dark ages before the Brady bill and modern computer systems. And, if you had a CHL, you were exempt from the waiting period.
Its still the law in my state, today. But my state also uses the Fed system, so permit or not, we go through the "instant check" every time.
Remember where these laws originally came from. Waiting periods for handguns were intended to be a "cooling off period", the argument was that forcing people to "cool off" via a waiting period meant a person couldn't get mad, run out and buy a pistol, and do harm with it. (yeah, I know, but it was the argument at the time).
LATER the claimed justification was changed, and the waiting period was claimed "to allow time to do a background check".
The Brady Bill came along, wanting to force us all into a national waiting period for handguns. And the political reality of the time was that something WAS going to pass, and become law.
The NRA made, what seemed at the time, to be a fair compromise. WE agreed to accept an "instant" background check on all guns (when technology made this possible) IF the waiting period requirement went away.
Today, sadly, that has morphed into a general belief that a background check is not a should have but a must have, and that's not totally a good thing for our rights.