Help me pick Pocket .45...

D

Drundel

New member
Well after finally finding a job and the soon to be pay checks comming in I am looking at a carry gun. I had orginally wanted a P99 in .40 but I decided that was bigger than I wanted to carry around town and didn't hold enough to carry when I drive. So drive gun is gonna be G20 and carry gun I have been thinking about is a mini .45.

Looking at the G36, Beretta Mini Cougar F. I sure wish the Sig 239 was in .45. Are there any other autos in this size I should consider? I looked over my bookmarks and I cannot think of any guns in that size?

Oh and about the G36 and Cougar are they full chambered barrels and is it safe to shoot +P loads in them?

Thanks all.
 
I like cargo pants so yes. I haven't been to the store yet to see how it fits.

brouhaha:

I have a USP40F. I think the compact is a bit big.
 
If it has to be a .45 I would go with the G36 or the sub compact Kimbers. But I wouldn't feel safe having either in a pocket w/o a rigid pocket holster, esp. the Glock. The standard 5.5# Glock trigger or the safety on the Kimber could be tripped accidentally in there before you get a chance to get it out. Then you'll see how well your defense loads perform in your own leg.

Last I heard Glock .40 and .45 do not have fully supported chambers.


Since you already have a Glock 20 how about a Glock 29? Having a full size and Compact Glock in the same caliber works really well.

I'll defer all praise and worship of the Glock 29 to "Our Lady That Carries a Big Stick", Ms. Tamara.
 
A box of Pandoras . . .

Drundel, I've sort of been looking at the same pistols. The Glock 36 is a heckovalot smaller than the mini-Cougar, if you're serious about the "pocket" part of the post. I perceived it to feel thinner, too, which surprised me because I've always felt Glocks (even allowing for single-stack mags in the 36) fairly "brick-ish."

S&W makes a "Chief's Special" .45 with a 3" bbl. Frankly, I thought it looked like a clunky POS. Their 457 (same size as 4516, fewer bells and whistles) and 4516 get generally good reviews. I'm not a big Smith fan at the moment, though, for reasons having nothing to do with their product quality.

Ruger makes the polymer-framed 97, not really a pocket gun (but then neither is the mini-Cougar), but an inexpensive and purportedly reliable .45 that's on the small side.

I tell you, I've almost given up on the 1911-types. I've noticed that many folks are real partisan toward their particular brand, and they run down the reliability of other brands. Over on the 1911Forum I've seen people talk about how great their $1600 mini Les Baer is and then others respond that they feel like their $800 Kimber is "just fine" after a $200 action job. (Good G-d, shouldn't an $800 pistol be good to go right out of the box? For $800, that thing should feed empty cases and clean itself!) Then somebody will chime in about how only Wilson stuff is any good and how Springfield is the best out-of-the-box. It's hard to make sense of it. I've had 1911s that almost always worked, but I've never had one that always did.

The Glock will work, almost always. I like the second-strike ability of the Beretta and the 1911. You haven't mentioned the Sig 245, which is bigger than the 239, but not much. It's chunky, too, though. I think the Glock is still smaller. But the Sig will do second-strike, if you're into that.

Good luck! Oh, BTW, I just looked yesterday at a bigger area gunstore: their wholesale (I wrote the code they use, years ago) for the Glock 36 was $475 and for the mini-Cougar was $534. This might help you bargain if you decide to go for one of these pistols.
 
Here's another alternative...

I'm sure we'll hear the usual POS remarks, but let me offer the AMT .45 Backup as a great back pocket gun. Fairly thin, stainless and simple operation with a heavy DAO trigger pull to help reduce the chances of an ND.

The gun is what it is - A simple to use small pistol firing a major caliber and nothing more than a trigger pull to send a round down range. It is not a tack driver (though mine will group well despite the sighting arrangement).

It is reliable (flawless so far), inexpensive (pick one up for less than $300.00) and low maintenance due to it's stainless construction and simple operation.

My vote for a good pocket .45!!!!!

CANIS
 
Thanks Erich and Canis:

I'm looking at the Smith and AMT right now. I haven't been to the stores yet but I borrowed my friends PPK and tried to find one about that size on the web by just looking at the sizes on the web.

Thanks again.
 
AMTs SUCK. Talk about unreliable, I've owned a couple, and not one of them worked well enough to be even a "range gun". If I was looking for a small CCW .45, first, I wouldn't be because .45ACP from a barrel shorter than 4" is so slow that penetration and expansion become big issues; regardless, I suppose a Colt Defender or Kimber Ultra Carry would be my choice.

Now, if you want a good pocket pistol, I would stay in the 9mm/40S&W/357SIG/10mm club. These cartridges give better performance in shorter barrels. A cut down Kahr SMP9, a Colt Pocket 9, maybe a custom 1911 subcompact in 10mm or a Glock 29 would be my choice in a semiauto pocket pistol.
 
I have carried the G36 for about 3 mos now as my Concealed Carry Weapon. It fits into a fanny pack or IWB holster easily and with 6+1 rounds available it has plenty of firepower. You really don't realize how thin it is until you put it in an IWB holster. You will almost forget it is there.

The barrel is 3.75"- the same as the G30. I carried a G27 for some time and couldn't get used to feel of hiding a gun the size of a bar of Irish Spring soap in my waistband. The G36 feels a lot smaller and lighter in my opinion. The weapon is as accurate as any .45 I have ever shot and a lot more accurate than many of the .40's and 9's I have shot.

Another choice is the SIG P245. It is a nice pistol, but the weapon design and alloy frame lets you feel a bit more recoil. The G36 is snappy- but the P245 even more so. Mag capacities are the same for both weapons. The Sig does have a 4"barrel giving you about 25 fps more velocity over the G36. For triggers, ya gotta love the Sigs. The only problem with the Sig is that there can be some confusion when switching from weapons with a frame mounted safety and the Sig. The decocker is right where a safety normally is and I have on several occasions accidently swiped it when attempting to engage a target.

Even though smaller autos are available, I wouldn't go much shorter than a 3.5 inch barrel in the .45. I believe it suffers from too much velocity loss in a 3 inch barrel. Depending on the manufacturer, a 3.75 inch barrel in the G36 averages about 800-900 fps with 230gr JHP and about 1000 to 1100 with the 185/200 gr JHP's.

Shooting +P in the G36 is perfectly safe with none of the problems associated with shooting high pressure loads such as a .40 without a fully supported chamber. 1911's have been doing it for years.

Good Shooting
RED
 
For an excellent, reliable small .45 try the Colt Defender, if can try and find one with XS parts, other wise the XSE is just as reliable. I got one with the XSE parts, changed the grip safety to a drop in wilson, put in a videcki trigger and novak low mounts. (The changes were more cosmetic than anything.) I love the piece, over 400 rounds without a hiccup, it's lighter (alloy frame) than a regular officer's and the barrel is 1/4", shorter, the defender has a 3" barrel. Oh, and 7 rounds plus one in the hole with flush fit SS Chip Ofc. mags. Recoil is not even an issue, and accuracy is as good as or better than any other officer size .45 IMHO. :)
 
I have a Beretta Mini Cougar, 8040F. And it doesn't fit in my pockets. :) With that said I do carry it daily IWB in either an Alessi Talon or a Rosen ARG-Slim.

However, back on topic - I was shooting with a friend and had a chance to do a side by side comparison with his Para-Ordinance P10.45. It's smaller and carries 10 rounds vs. my Cougars 8. Empty it's comparable in weight to the Cougar (loaded it's definitely heavier). It shoots nice and may be on my list. The downside was it was his second - the first wouldn't feed anything. Supposedly, the first run of these had issues that have since been cleaned up.

-- Chuck
 
Anyone you who have handled the small .45 have you also held a PPK? I just got back from my friends house and the gun and holster easily fit into the pockets of my Khakis and didn't stick out too bad or anything. The reason I like the pockets idea is i think it would be more comfortable when walking about town and sitting down and getting up. And with an IWB holster it was hardly there.

The reason I wanted a .45 is because it has more power than the 9mm but doesn't recoil as much as the .40. As I said above I have a USP.40F and like it but when I shoot it and them my roommates 92FS there isn't a comparison on how fast I can accurately shoot his.
 
The only real pocket 45 is a derringer.

But the G30 is a better choice for CCW since you can actually shoot it accurately and without the snap feel of a 10mm full power load.

And in a pinch G21 hi caps work well in the G30 so it can double as a great house gun too with 13 rounds in the mag and one in the tube!

G30 no doubt!
 
An American Derringer in 45 acp is about the only 45 I have ever been truly able to carry in my pocket. Actually with a bit of practice there not too hard to shoot, and they sure beat one of the .25's or .32's for the first shot.
 
Drundel, I've handled a lot of the above-mentioned .45s, and I've handled a lot of PPKs and similar pistols. None of the .45s are similar to the PPK, IMO. The AMT is small, but chunky, clunky, and heavy (and the one's I've seen haven't been reliable, YMMV). The Glock 36 is getting there, but not in the same league as a PPK. No .45 is like the PPK. Sorry, bud.
 
I agree with Erich, the reason the PPK is so comfortable is the teeny, tiny bullets it shoots. I think the G-36 and Kimber Ultra carry are the closest thing to what you want.

The 9mm isn't that bad of a cartridge with the right ammo, most defensive handgunning classes ask you to bring a reliable pistol in 9mm, .40, .357 sig, 10 mm, or .45. So it can't be too bad. Shot placement is the key anyway.

The Kahr series of pistols are similar in size to the ppk, and are chambered in either 9mm or .40. I have the K-40 and I love it. If you want a lighter gun, get the P-9 the polymer framed one. It also comes with the elite trigger, which is a shorter, smoother pull.

It all comes down to how comfortable you are with a handgun round, and if .45 is all you will be happy with, then .45 it should be.
 
Erich:

Thanks for your post.

It now looks like that I will have to go with a .40/.357sig with the forementioned size of a PPK. Kahr MK40 series or something similiar. I really like the lines on the Beretta 8045 and the fact that it has a hammer. I guess you can call me old fashion, but I like the hammer.

Thanks again to all who have posted.
 
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